I’m new to motorbiking. I don’t like the wet much, least of all, bends.

I went out with local IAM group who advised when, for example riding around a left hand bend on a B road I want to be on the crown, right on the line as far right as possible,to see through the corner. When it’s blind on a country road I feel very exposed.

Is this right?

Being out there gives you the maximum chance of seeing anything coming round the corner. That’s where you should be in a car too in fact, advanced motoring instruction advises you to cross the crown where possible to see even further (obviously tempered by visibility).

You need to read Roadcraft..

Get some lessons as well….

That’s the racing line, and the best place to be. But, if you don’t feel comfortable go slower and keep tighter.

If its a blind bend on a country road just slow down. You should be able to stop in the distance you can see. Keep this in mind first and the rest will come. Slow in fast out. You can accelerate earlier when positioned for view as the view extends earlier

Also, always have an escape line planned, so you know where you’re going if you do encounter something coming wide around the bend etc…

All very stressful at first and requires way more concentration than driving a car.

I one followed a motorcycle cop who went right on the other side of the road while approaching a L/H bend. The idea is to get the best view around the corner and to increase the radius. Pretty obvs really.

When you’re new, remember it’s slow-in-fast-out. And you’ll get faster with time. Concentrate on staying loose on the bike and watching where you want to go, rather than worrying about lines and speed.

But as a general idea you want to go from outside, to just touching just the apex of the curve on the inside, then outside again. Whether you think the apex is on your side of the road or the other is your decision 🙂

Also remember on right hand bends that when your wheel is on the crown that your head is a good foot or so on the wrong side and it’ll be my wing mirror you hit.

Have a read about vanishing points. Endless fun chasing them 😉

Its all about observation. However i know where your worry come from, many cars would cut that corner, especially at night, thinking the road was empty. This means you have to react to that, which as a beginner requires thought as moving a motorbike is not sub conscious, yet! To combat this equalize the danger, ride in the middle of your lane and build up to being comfortable leaning the bike to get your desired line without thinking. Speed will drop as you have less visibility.

You will have to push yourself though to build your confidence, which is what the IAM group are doing.

Twist of the wrist books. Very good education. Roadcraft too, but is more about road awareness maybe than bike handling. Both teach you positioning, brake point, apex and vanishing point so read all 🙂 You really don’t want to be running wide on a corner, your advise was very much correct.

Its more than right – its what keeps you in control and informed about what is
approaching – it might not be obvious but it also increases the time that you are visible to the person coming in the other direction.
Feeling exposed is natural until you start to feel in control – as per other posts buy a copy of roadcraft and absorb it.
The only cobblers you will get from the IAM is not indicating unless it benefits some other road user that you have observed – its wrong IMHO as it assumes perfect observation on your part – and there are situations where signalling your intentions is of benefit.

One thing to remember,if you come off on a left hander you’ll encounter oncoming traffic,not good at all…

Try to relax. Bend your elbows (flap your elbows like a bird whilst holding the bars) have a very light grip of the bars. Look through the corner, learn to countersteer and have good throttle control and it should start to feel more natural. Avoid being tense.
If you get chance try reading “a twist of the wrist ” by Keith Code. It’s for racing but will teach you the art of cornering.

5thElefant – Member
That’s the racing line

The racing line is through the apex. You’re not looking to see if someone is coming the wrong way round Cadwell 🙂

Racing line – outside to apex to outside.

Roadcraft line – stay on the outside of the bend for the best view. Come in a little on a left hand bend if there’s something coming the other way.

The racing line is through the apex. You’re not looking to see if someone is coming the wrong way round Cadwell

It’s the same line. Wide on the entrance, which is also where you get best visibility, head for the apex as you see it, and if you can see the apex you can see through the corner.

the OP was talking of following the crown round the bend (well not the exit, obvs) and I think we can assume IAM were’nt recommending taking in the other carriageway on the entrance were they?

sorry OP/elephant I see what you meant in your post now.

You were told to use the crown as your outside BEFORE hitting the apex. Not take the crown AS the apex

well indeed.

I followed some coppers once, they were right on the white lines (left handed).

Too risky IME, I’d rather go slightly slower and have a margin to play with.

Also all the grit and crap usually ends up in the gutter, so avoid that on right handers

I guess there comes a point on a l left hand bend, where it is so tight that you are just putting yourself in the firing line for someone else’s misjudgement of the corner. i.e., it’s that sharp that hanging right has not real benefit in increasing visibility.
That’s your judgement call and it depends on width of road as much as radius of corner.

If you cant see far enough for the wide position to be safe you are going too fast. Simples. If you are worried about a car coming the other way and clipping you,again you are going too fast. If you see a car coming you have a better view will see it warlier and can move away!

The only cobblers you will get from the IAM is not indicating unless it benefits some other road user that you have observed

Yeah I could never really see what I had gained by not indicating. Its not hard and there was always some bloke on a bike behind me!!

Like this 🙂

As detailed above never compromise safety through poor positioning for an increased view, if it’s a true blind bend is there any point taking an extreme line, you still may not be able to see anything but have increased your risk. Roadcraft is a good book and works well when combined with instruction. IAM I’m a bit meh about my experience would lead me towards training by ex or serving traffic bikers, they tend to be a bit more pragmatic and better (when I did my initial assessment to go on a police bike course the instructor said that alone was above the IAM standard)

You missed the apex weeksy. You should have grass wedged in your knee pads 😉

right on the line as far right as possible you feel comfortable,to see through the corner

Lots of good advice on cornering here. Personally I’d recommend the Roadcraft book before any of the ‘racing’ ones.. learn about being safer before going faster.

Corners will come with time, and especially in the wet… I know that if I haven’t ridden in the wet for a while (I avoid the rain as I hate cleaning bikes afterwards) then I find that everything looks looks like an oil slick and I have no confidence; that takes time to come back.

Tuition is always useful, and I found the RoSPA guys very helpful, and they will lead you through the vanishing point 5thElefant mentions and road positioning etc:
https://www.roadar.org.uk/riders/index.htm <– don’t be put off by the word advanced (read it as advancing)
Also look up the police run days:
http://www.bikesafe.co.uk

Ride at your own pace, and try not to let other road users pressure you into anything else.

BTW, if you’re in Surrey, Sussex, or Hampshire I’ll happily head out for a run one dry evening and provide some feedback while munching a bacon and egg roll in Loomies.

Roadcraft is a good book and works well when combined with instruction.

I suspect that’s a very important bit – knowing the theory and then being taught pragmatic application of it.

Re the not indicating if there’s nobody there to benefit from it thing – the way that was taught to me was that doing it that way compels you to look all around you properly before any manoeuvre, whereas if you indicate by default you’re not so compelled. (When you’re doing blue runs we were told to just indicate for every manoeuvre because you’re going to be fully concentrating on what’s ahead of you and in any case there shouldn’t be anything coming up behind you looking to overtake). I do the former because that’s what was drummed in but I don’t think it’s that big a deal – both are hugely preferable to the halfwits that never indicate despite there being lots of people about.

+1 for Roadcraft. I learned loads from it, it’s very very good.

The thing with white lines and bends is, you can’t guarantee that there’s some oncoming bellend who’s overcooked it and crossed the line. You want to be out away from the corner far enough to improve visibility, but not so far as you’re going to need a spatula to get you out of the grill of a white van.

The mantra I used when I was a fairly new driver was, “if I meet myself coming the other way, will I die?” If yes, I’m going too fast / wide.

“Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.”

I found these useful….

General Positioning

Limit Points

I also think this is quite valuable
Why my friends are faster than me

Rich.

Not sure now but it use to be that Police riders had a greater risk of accident when on their own (non Police bikes) than average riders – mainly cos they were use to riding something that other road users noticed (and paid attention to), as opposed to normal bikers who they usual ignore.

But for the OP, there is never a RIGHT place to be, as even the same corner has different conditions and traffic pretty much at all times.

Be safe.

Merak, it’s all about positioning to see as much as you can so you can make adjustments well in advance as well as being seen. It seems alien to begin with especially if you’ve just passed your test as you’re taught to ride from kerb rather than use the whole road.
Ignore all the racing line bollocks above as it is usually the complete opposite, clipping the apex etc which is all good on the race track where you have one way traffic but on public roads is a sure fire way to end up in a ditch.
You’ll know when it is starting to click as you will feel slower but actually be making better progress with little risk.

What Craigxxl said. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that if the racers do it, it’s OK for the road. Use the whole of your lane only when safe to do so.

I don’t know how many times I’ve had to study Roadcraft (job) its not the most inspiring of books, but is packed full of useful info. Unfortunately it can be difficult to understand exactly what they mean, and the diagrams are not always the best help.
Then i would suggest you keep up with the IAM, they put basic Roadcraft into practice. I’d also suggest as others have done that you try and locate your nearest Bikesafe course. They are generally run by Police riders who can assist you.
That said, and reading your OP, if you are new to the bike and are not keen on riding in the wet, then temper your lines so they are not as extreme as the IAM are suggesting. Yes, there is an ideal place to get the view, and if you are happy doing it then there is nothing at all wrong on being completely on the wrong side of the road, (as long as you’re not crossing double whites). If we were making progress then we’d be all over the place, but only do it if you are confident.
Best get used to the bike and riding before you start trying to push your own limits.

That’s the racing line, and the best place to be. But, if you don’t feel comfortable go slower and keep tighter.

As I’m glad to see others have picked up on, it’s not the racing line you want to aim for. You might end up taking the racing line depending on how the visibility is once you enter the corner and what’s coming the other way, but your planned line should be wide in tight out, which if you’re taking the racing line at racing speed you shouldn’t be able to do!

It goes without saying that above all you need to feel comfortable, and that you won’t be going at race speeds on the road, and you will be going slower in the wet (though once you are comfortable with taking lines which give you longer to react, you will not need to go as slow).

Seeing as you’re new practice countersteering, the best way of getting a bike to turn. Watch the fast guys going from one extreme lean to the other very quickly, you’ll be able to do that with a little practice 😀

https://youtu.be/JWuTcJcqAng how to do it

Twist 2 full vid https://youtu.be/W4hIqE4zpJM

Racing line for racing – no risk of obstructions, stuff on road, pot holes, gravel, lamp posts, islands etc. Plus no cars coming the other way

Roadcraft line for on the road. I find it much quicker (on the road), as I can see what’s actually coming up before I get to it. It’s actually easier to pass cars on corners taking this line too

I found my riding got significantly better after my IAM. I know it’s full of old blokes and beemers, but my coach was great and I enjoyed the experience. Improved my confidence massively

All good advice from lots of people. The roadcraft book is useful (if dull) and Twist of the Wrist is helpful.

Thing is, cornering on a bike is a lot harder than in a car and requires a lot more skill – both mental and physical.

You’re not gonna learn overnight. Get as much practice as you can. Follow better riders on rideouts. DO the IAM. Do race schools/track days. Make a point of riding in the wet as much as possible. Get some 1:1 training.

Put a camera on your bike and re-run some of your rides to look at what was good and what wasn’t.

IF you see every ride as a learning opportunity then you’re halfway there already.

Have fun.