[Closed] Conspiracy theorys......does anyone believe them?

Let us begin at the beggining of 9/11 anyway!

2.3 trillion dollars vanishes, the next day 9/11 happens and a shit load of computers and hard drives get taken out well thousands of computers and loads of paper records anyway, between 180 and 300 billion dollars in gold goes missing from the basement vaults. 130 million is recovered due to a van being caught in one of the explosions.

At the pentagon a plane crashes and several thousand documents go missing from an unaffected area, let me repeat that in an area not affected by the plane crash thousands of files simply vanish, the files relating to the missing trillions 😯

the facts contradict what the media is saying

"So here are two videos from the media that prove my case..." 🙂

Incidentally I reckon you CAN see the plane in that second video, about 0:09 you can see what appears to be the tail fin. Only very briefly mind you, as you might expect with a plane travelling at 500mph+ being recorded by a crappy slow frame rate CCTV camera.

Here is a clip from the you tube that provides extra info on the subject of 911, I'm not so insecure or deluded that I feel the need to prove anything.

There are countless unanswered questions and anomalies from 911, considering we went to war with Afghanistan and Iraq over this event, might not be a bad idea to look into it.

I'm not so insecure or deluded that I feel the need to prove anything.

Probably just as well 😆

Here's a conspiracy theory for you to discuss, you can't of course deny it!

Nice to see Kaesae joining in with his 'evidence.'

Whilst we talk about conspiricies, I think there may have been a cover up that Kaesae could shed some light on.

Kaesae, where did you get those frames from that you were selling?

2.3 trillion dollars vanishes, the next day 9/11 happens and a shit load of computers and hard drives get taken out well thousands of computers and loads of paper records anyway, between 180 and 300 billion dollars in gold goes missing from the basement vaults.

oooh.. I like this one

international robbery and espionage.. yes please

between 180 and 300 billion dollars in gold goes missing from the basement vaults.

And isn't it [i]amazing[/i] that the World Trade Centre would apparently contain more gold than the purpose-built, fortified [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bullion_Depository ]US Bullion Depository at Fort Knox[/url].

And that nearly 5,000 metric tons of gold could go missing without anyone noticing.
It's not like you could stuff it up your jumper.

Buildings are designed to withstand a certain amount of structural damage. Its called "load shifting". The idea us that if one side of a building fails it doesn't topple over like a giant game of jenga,the rest of the structure supports it. If/when the remaining structure fails the building drops vertically like a sack of spuds Which is what I saw on 911.

What happened to those buildings was well outside the design parameters.

And that nearly 5,000 metric tons of gold could go missing without anyone noticing.
It's not like you could stuff it up your jumper.

14 Dump trucks?

can we have a comp for the most outlandish conspiracy theory -Kaesae can be judge - and can then promote it on all the sites available....

14 Dump trucks?

allmountainventure: so you can chuck all sorts of asymmetric loads at modern buildings, and they'll "load shift" then neatly collapse?

So you're going for c) 'demolition "experts" are a bunch of charlatans and it's actually a piece of piss' then? 🙂

Who was it who said "If there's one thing we learn from history, it's that we don't learn from history."

32 computer hardrives and $100,000,000 million missing due to illegal transfers.

Grahams the world trade center was one of the largest gold depositories in the world, true or false?

Before I forget, when you research something you look into it get facts them attempt to verify or eliminate them. I shouldn't have to tell you this basic fact, but it's best not to take any chances!

Anything you want to verify write down the details and then do more research!

Nice one Kaesae, more evidence in the form of a you tube video.

You may have missed my post above. The frames?

So according to the general logic on STW, youtube documentary clips with clear references to facts that can be independently verified are not in fact valid sources 😯

Grahams the world trade center was one of the largest gold depositories in the world, true or false?

Well you said it, so I guess it must be true.

I mean, obviously that doesn't tally with [url= http://americanfreepress.net/?p=298 ]what was reported[/url], but we know the world media are all in on it, so I trust your undisclosed sources.

I was just [i]surprised[/i] they'd keep it all there, rather than say Fort Knox or the nearby Federal Reserve Bank.

Konabunny, not sure. Possibly both, or neither! I heard it in a piece on radio 4 by an American military advisor and historian talking about the repition of mistakes in warfare, Vietnam, Afghanistan through the ages etc. Can't remember if he was quoting someone else, though.

2.3 trillion dollars vanishes, the next day 9/11 happens

So they rigged the entire thing in one day? Pretty good work really. I'm glad that the US has such an efficient body to carry out atrocities like this. Perhaps they could teach their government (and ours) some lessons as I think it would be beneficial.

Could you, perhaps, find some non-"truther" corroboration for those videos? Or is the absence of them just proof that the truthers are right?

So according to the general logic on STW, youtube documentary clips with clear references to facts that can be independently verified are not in fact valid sources

YouTube has never been considered a valid source of evidence.

It's not an STW thing.

It's just common sense.

And that nearly 5,000 metric tons of gold could go missing without anyone noticing.
It's not like you could stuff it up your jumper.

I was bought a rather baggy jumper and am strong enough to carry 5000 metric tons. Does that put me in the frame for the theft?

So according to the general logic on STW, youtube documentary clips with clear references to facts that can be independently verified are not in fact valid sources

Thanks for leading us to the light

So anyone those frames and the earthquake research?

According to a Nov. 1, 2001 article in The London Times: “The Comex metals trading division of the New York Mercantile Exchange kept 3,800 gold bars—weighing 12 tons and worth more than $100 million—in vaults in the building’s [apparently Building 5—Ed.] basement. Comex also held almost 800,000 ounces of gold there on behalf of others with a value of about $220 million. It also held more than 102 million ounces of silver, worth [an estimated] $430 million.”

Oddly enough, the "London Times" 🙄 website has no such article in its archives but they definitely shouldn't let actual facts get in the way of conspiracy facts!!!!

nealglover, common sense? I do not think that means what you think that means!

When you research something you gather facts, the place that each fact relative to what you are researching comes from, is called a source. Once you identify information relative to what you are researching you then need to verify it and incorporate it into the picture you are building of the events or circumstances, of what has occurred.

Oddly enough, the "London Times" website has no such article in its archives

Here is a link to the original Times article (doesn't work but I'm not sure if that's just because I'm not a Times subcriber ):
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,63-132939,00.html

Here is page purporting to be a copy of the article:
http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/evidence/timesonline_gold.html

Here is a PBS story about them [b]successfully recovering[/b] the gold and silver from WTC 4:
http://www.pbs.org/americarebuilds/engineering/engineering_property_01.html

Along with pictures of them doing just that:
[img] [/img]

Here is a New York Times story about the same thing:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/01/nyregion/a-nation-challenged-the-vault-below-ground-zero-silver-and-gold.html

kaesae - Well, why don't you offer us the benefit of your research. Independently verifiable info from sources that people might trust. So far, in all your threads, you've not managed to do this. Please, just this time, for us. Pretty please?

Kaesae- you need to chill a bit, go for a ride or two, all this angst about the world will only make you ill

When you research something you gather facts, the place that each fact relative to what you are researching comes from, is called a source. Once you identify information relative to what you are researching you then need to verify it and incorporate it into the picture you are building of the events or circumstances, of what has occurred.

I think you mean you gather 'evidence based opinions' for a start off.

Now now... Can everyone be respectful and pleasant when debating paranoid, delusional, crackpot conspiracy theories please?
No personal abuse or insults - no matter how bonkers the opinion you are addressing is.

The idea is they won't collapse. With all sorts of torsion loads and even with some of the structure removed.

Quite obviously the torsional load capacity of the TTs was not exceeded (designed for massive windshear ) or they would have toppled immediately on impact. The "redundant structure" design was able to withstand the removal of large structural components, ie load shifting, because they stood for quite some time after with gaping holes in the side. The remaining structure was quickly weakened by the large fire and eventually something gave, with all the structure now in play and nothing redundant down it comes as a structural failure..

The only direction all that mass could go is strait down. As the upper floors fell through the rest of the building pulverised debris flew out in all directions damaging buildings and killing people 100s of meets away. A neat and tidy demolition style collapse it was not.

Did anyone else see the planes too? Or were my eyes laser hologramed by "them"?

nealglover, common sense? I do not think that means what you think that means!

Oh I'm pretty sure it does.

When you research something you gather facts, the place that each fact relative to what you are researching comes from, is called a source. Once you identify information relative to what you are researching you then need to verify it and incorporate it into the picture you are building of the events or circumstances, of what has occurred.

Yes.

And [b] common sense[/b] tells me that YouTube videos, posted by random people on the Internet are not a Credible Source of Information.

You may think differently, that's up to you.

But if you try and prove a point by posting a YouTube video, you will more than likely find that I am not alone in thinking that all it proves is that there are some very misinformed people with YouTube accounts, and some others who are willing to believe the shit they post on YouTube.

Not sure about a lot of that, amv, but there's been reams and reams written about it, some reasonable some not, we're not going to replicate it all here.

A neat and tidy demolition style collapse it was not.

WCT7 was. Incredibly tidy, incredibly neat and incredibly quick. No planes either.

 

Hello

This 9/11 thing is something i have to deal with on a profesional level on an almost daily basis and has become something of a joke amongst the designers and engineers i work with.

If you consider in designing a tall steel frame building you will have to make considerations that under certain circumstances it will remain standing, then the considerations should have changed following the publication of the NIST report into why the WTC towers fell over. That is. A combination of impact trauma and office fires given the right set of circumstances can weaken steel structures to such and extent that they will fail.

NO.

This is not a consideration. Wasnt before. Wasnt immediately after. Wasnt now.

If 1 of the largest steel frame buildings on the planet collapse through impact and fire then this deserves to be forensically investigated because that then informs future design. If 2 of the largest steel frame buildings collapse on the same day within hours of each other then that surely warrents forensic examination of the steel structure. If a third building then collapses from fire alone (WTC 7 no great impact trauma)on the same day this really should be properly investigated so that the lessons learned are incorporated into future designs. Nope.

Results of the NIST report are ignored in US building codes. None of the Tall structure engineers I have worked with consider the events of 9/11 to impinge on future design as they dont believe that impact and (office) fires can cause structural failures of the magnitude and (this is quite important) symmetry witnessed on 9/11.

Im a safety engineer by the way working on tall buildings (design, construction and consulting on demolition)

Incredibly quick - it took 7 hours from the initial damage [damage from impact then 7 hours of fire damage] before it collapsed.
It hard to collapse under gravity by any method other than quickly or at the speed of gravity but it took a long long time to reach that point. perhaps they lost the trigger for the demolition in all the dust?

nealglover, a source of information cannot be discredited simply by where it comes from or it's source.

To suggest that information is unreliable without first attempting to verify it or that researchers can be discredited because they own and post up their finding on you tube is simply not logical.

Information is being presented and should then be examined and either be verified thus becoming facts or discredited thus being removed from the investigation and any further consideration, unless new information is provided that means this information must be reevaluated.

To say that information provided by the media that cannot be confirmed or verified is more prevalent than information that can be independently verified, is to adhere to a belief that the truth is that which the mass corporate media report and that which is held by the majority of a society as the facts of an event, is not too be challenged. Unless you are prepared to become the target of social ridicule.

There are a great many questions to be answered if someone wants to grow in understanding and comprehension of the world we live in and also our place in it, why is it wrong to even ask these questions or challenge that which is commonly held to be true?

To suggest that information is unreliable without first attempting to verify it [...] is simply not logical.

Fair enough I suppose.

...or that researchers can be discredited because they own and post up their finding on you tube is simply not logical.

Nor fair enough.

A combination of impact trauma and office fires

"Office fire"?

Those are normally furniture, paper, plastics, that kind of thing. Not thousands of gallons of jet fuel... Not sure of the logic of spending god knows how much to protect against that. How would it even be possible? If the middle of the building is entirely on fire, what're you going to do? Emergency zipwires from the top of every building?

Actually.. that could work!

JY, I don't understand you.

gottopickapenny, that's very interesting, thank you.

Changes in building codes as a result of the investigations into the collapses is something that I would have expected and haven't seen.

Unless anyone can point me towards anything stating that they have?

Of course, who really knows who this guy is? He probably puts things on youtube.

Of course, his arguments are well constructed with logic that's hard to argue with, so I imagine people won't.

mol, no fuel in building 7. Office fire, plus impact from debris.

a source of information cannot be discredited simply by where it comes from or it's source

Given your inabilty to formulate questions, adequately research or listen to advice [ you only want confirmation of your views] and the conclusions you reach I would be surprised if anyone GAS about your "research methods". These seem to consist of listening to you tube, making outlandish claims supported with waffle about the path to true knowledge and ignoring everything else in particular the actual EVIDENCE. Personally I would describe your research methods as non existent or if i was feeling kind ill concieved.

There are a great many questions to be answered if someone wants to grow in understanding and comprehension

So those frames then

When you research something you gather facts, the place that each fact relative to what you are researching comes from, is called a source.

Okay, so what is the source for your [i]"300 billion dollars in gold goes missing"[/i] [i]fact[/i]?

It doesn't agree with what was reported.

It doesn't even agree with the YouTube video you posted, which despite it's title actually states [i]"[b]rumour has it[/b] over 160 billion dollars of gold was stored in the World Trade Centre. So where did all the gold go?"[/i] ("rumour", nice source there).

Silverstein's insurance claim was 7 billion? Wouldn't there have been a claim for the 300 billion of gold??

Unless things have changed I am pretty sure offices are designed for 3 hours of uncontrolled burning, no sprinklers and no fire service. When I left the UK I was working on a big new build on Canary warf. All the talk was aboutnew evacuation regs, not sure about structure but even 6 years after 911 none could agree on how to move fwd with numbers and widths of evacuation routes.

Kaesae, I have a question for you. Yes, a question. I know, take your time.

Aside from doing a really REALLY bad job of debating them on STW. All these horrible things you keep fretting about. What exactly are you doing about them?

Some of the issues you discussed are very very serious, some are almost certainly total boII*cks. But some have the potential to be deadly serious.

So.... what are you doing?

He mentioned on the climate thread that he has an [i]"escape plan"[/i] and [i]"I plan on going camping and climbing and hiking and canoeing as well as lots of other survival activities if I can"[/i]

I believe the next stage is usually building a bunker and buying lot of weapons. 😀

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