Commuting accident, thoughts on the following...

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Commuting accident, thoughts on the following...

24 posts & 15 voices | Started 6 months ago by DaveBro | Latest reply from bigjim

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DaveBro - Member

I was riding down Broad St central Birmingham at app. 5.40, traffic was slow, so I was making good progress overtaking on right hand side (single carriageway, but there is enough room to overtake without straying onto the other side of the road), slightly ahead a car must have stopped / indicated they were gong to stop (taxi perhaps, can’t be sure) and at the same time a car behind them - swerved right without indication to overtake them - right into my path – I collided with their front wing / smashed their wing mirror.

Car stopped (couldn’t really get away in rush hour traffic) lady said, sorry, I didn’t see you.. so she cant have looked in her mirror before swerving (well lit city centre road, I have full hi viz top / gillet and exposure joystick flashing etc),
I have a few bumps and bruises, but nothing to trouble the NHS with, my bike has a badly buckled front wheel (had to ride home 15 miles with no front brake!), slightly buckled rear wheel and scuffed rear mech.

A lady pedestrian did help me up and give me a business card, so I assume she saw what happened and will be a witness if needed.

So apart from feeling the need to share this, I would appreciate some thoughts on the following;

· Is there anything about this that on reflection could be argued as my fault, contributory factor etc.

· The Wheels I will get LBS to sort, however the rear mech is functionally fine – but now scuffed, anyone have any experience of what is reasonable to ask for – nothing / completely new mech?

Thanks Dave.

Posted 6 months ago #
Surrounded By Zulus - Member

Your overtake wasnt safe.

Posted 6 months ago #
project - Member

http://www.bikeline.co.uk for free advice.

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

If the person who pulled into your path wants to play fair I would suggest getting your bike back into the condition it was before the collision would be fair.

Personally I wouldn't care about the scuffed mech but I would want to check it carefullly, I'd be looking for a new front wheel and trued rear or replaced if it wont true.

No fault on yo at all unless your speed was unreasoanble ie too fast. there is precedent on this from motocycle accidents and that has changed recently

Posted 6 months ago #
cynic-al - Member

rear mech - nowt.

Posted 6 months ago #
Surrounded By Zulus - Member

Would you have done what you were doing if you were on a motorbike? If not, it was unsafe.

Posted 6 months ago #
sobriety - Member

I'd ask the driver to pay for fixing any damage and leave it at that, twas what I did when I got knocked off.

In other news, I dropped my commuter on mud from a local building site last week. Has a moan to the site supervisor and got a phone call from their insurance co today wanting to know what I'd broken, they seemed quite relieved that I wasn't going down the personal injury route and just wanted my damaged kit replacing. They were also pretty annoyed that the site obviously weren't cleaning the trucks properly before allowing them out onto the road, which was nice.

Posted 6 months ago #
zilog6128 - Member

They were also pretty annoyed that the site obviously weren't cleaning the trucks properly before allowing them out onto the road, which was nice.

You'll find this is almost always the case. It's cos it ends up costing them money though, not cos they're concerned about your welfare

Posted 6 months ago #
grantway - Member

I got pretty mashed a few years back and basically used a give way line
So only payment riding for me now.

Posted 6 months ago #
sobriety - Member

Yup, used to work in construction so my main gripe was with the obvious lack of bothering to clean the trucks as they left the site/not changing the water in the wheel clean (if there is one) often enough. They've had a road sweeper out on some sections of it (not the area where I came off), but all this does is move the mud around. They're lucky my boss was in Korea last week, since he rides a motorbike, and it probably would've had him too...

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

This is the most recent decision on this sort of issue with motorcyles

Davis v Schrogin

Mr Schrogin was stuck in a traffic jam in his car on a straight road. Mr Davis was riding a motorcycle along the same road in the same direction and was able to overtake the stationary queue as nothing was coming in the opposite direction. Mr Schrogin decided to leave the queue by executing a U-turn. Although Mr Davis' motorcycle was visible, Mr Schrogin did not see him until his car collided with the motorbike. Mr Schrogin accepted in evidence that he was looking the wrong way. Mr Davis first saw Mr Schrogin's car moving towards the kerb in preparation for the u-turn and was no more than five cars' length back from the point of impact.

The trial judge found Mr Schrogin negligent in making the u-turn without looking properly, and that Mr Davis was not to blame. Mr Schrogin argued that Mr Davis had accepted that he had paused to react and was contributory negligent. The Court of Appeal held that Mr Davis was so close to the point of impact that he could not have avoided the collision, so there was no basis for a finding of contributory negligence.

Comment: In previous decisions, motorcyclists have borne in excess of 50% of liability. The Appeal Court's unwillingness to challenge the decision of the judge's finding confirms each case will be decided upon its own facts.

If the car driver yuo hit want to go legal then you may well need to claim for injuries and so onto ensure that if it goes 50/50 which is possible you do not end up out of pocket

More discussion and court cases here -

http://www.markthompsonlaw.com/motorcycle-filtering-through-traffic/accident-and-personal-injury-case-examples/

Posted 6 months ago #
DezB - Member

Is there anything about this that on reflection could be argued as my fault, contributory factor etc

No.
There is no excuse for drivers not seeing cyclists.
WE have to be 100% aware at all times. Motorists don't and they bloody should.
100% driver's fault. And she admitted it: "SMIDSY".

Posted 6 months ago #
crazy-legs - Member

Hmmm, difficult one really. The fact that you rode off may well mean the driver assumes your bike is fine and decides to contest any costs incurred in fixing it. To be honest, if that proves to be the case I wouldn't bother going legal, too much hassle for the cost of a wheel true. Hopefully though she'll just cough up the cash and be a bit more careful next time she pulls out.

Posted 6 months ago #
DaveBro - Member

Thanks, lots of useful info and insights, i will get bike sorted, write to driver with bill and see what happens - hopefuly her sentiment at the scene will mean she pays up, as pursuing this further if i get no joy probably isnt worth the hastle - which will be frustrating.

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

If she won't play ball I would go after her. Not that much hassle and if she won't see you right for a reasonable sum then she deserves to be shafted for a larger sum.

take pics of everything now - and your bruises when they appear. Also speak to your witness to see how useful they will be

Posted 6 months ago #
Margin Walker - Member

TandemJeremy - Member
If she won't play ball I would go after her. ..........then she deserves to be shafted for a larger sum.

Not sure encouraging someone to make a fraudulent claim is good advice.

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

No fraudulent by any means

If she will play ball then just be reasonable and accept a reasoanble sum to sort the bike - hundred quid or two

If she won't then make a full claim - including for the injuries and the scratched bits to make up for the time and effort it costs you. Bumps and bruises worth a few hundred quid - don't invent debilitating whiplash for thousands. You might have to accept a partial settlement as outlined in the legal links I posted so you want to make sure you end up with enough to repair the bike

Posted 6 months ago #
rightplacerighttime - Member

If you are going to write to the driver you might be advised to put

"Without prejudice save as to costs"

at the top of the letter.

It means that you are writing to try to settle the situation amicably prior to getting legal and it won't prejudice any legal case that you want to make later.

This is not professional advice BTW, just something you might want to be aware of. Maybe someone with legal training might want to comment further, or you can google the phrase to find out a bit more.

Posted 6 months ago #
antigee - Member

This is the most recent decision on this sort of issue with motorcyles

Davis v Schrogin

motorcyclists regularly try to overtake me when i'm trying to turn right into my drive (in a car) despite clear indicating and a 40mph speed limit - pleased to know that it will be judged my fault if i fail to see one of the ****ts overtaking the traffic behind

Posted 6 months ago #
rightplacerighttime - Member

The Appeal Court's unwillingness to challenge the decision of the judge's finding confirms each case will be decided upon its own facts.

Posted 6 months ago #
wellhung - Member

If she has crossed the white line to hit you it's on her, she has straddled the line to hit you.

You're not having much luck other than bad this year eh

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

antigee

Cases vary and each case is decided on its merits but you do have a duty to make sure the road is clear before making a manoeuvre - indicating does not give you right of way. So yes - If you fail to see one you will probably be partly to blame.

http://www.markthompsonlaw.com/motorcycle-filtering-through-traffic/accident-and-personal-injury-case-examples/

We could go on looking at every case since time began, but you have enough here to give you the picture. The driver must take care to see a motorcycle, and the motorcyclist must take great care, and almost have a crystal ball. Think about what you are doing, what are the possibilities ahead, and what can’t I see.

Posted 6 months ago #
DaveBro - Member

tj - thanks, initial correspondence will make the principle clear that I could claim for this XYZ... but all I really want is the cost of the bike repair etc. All, at least in the first exchange attempting to be entirely reasonable.

Wellhung, yep - tough few months. I still love it! - but do get the feeling I am a cat running out of lives, which is partly why my family will not get to hear about this one, as i may come home to find the bikes on ebay!

Posted 6 months ago #
bigjim - Member

Personally I'd leave it and be glad it wasn't worse, in my experience dealing with insurers is just a pain in the ass, you'll need to make a good case to push it forward with her insurer as they'll ask you to present that from the off. The timescales of insurers just means it sits there in your mind nagging for months.

Also I'm afraid I don't have too much sympathy with you if you were overtaking a queue of traffic at speed in the dark! Having been in a bad crash with a car I'm more in the self preservation and responsible riding park than the I'll ride like I want and if I get hit I'll come after you park, life is just too short for the hassle, but maybe I'm just older and wiser.

Posted 6 months ago #

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