I’m a bit fuzzy on what’s allowed and what isn’t when it comes to claiming for business miles in your personal vehicle.

Basically, my wife works for Fife Council, and her job involves travelling all over Fife and occasionally beyond, to interview people. The council’s stance is that as the main office is Kirkcaldy, they’ll not entertain mileage claims for travel done within the distance between our house and Kirkcaldy (approx 22 miles). They seem to be very good at dishing out the work in such a way that my missus very rarely travels outside this 22 mile radius for her interviews. So, on a normal day she does about 40 miles on council business and pays the petrol/wear & tear out of her own pocket. That can’t be right, surely?

The council won’t budge, so can we claim it back from HMRC via SA at the end of the year?

And I definitely changed this to the “Chat” forum. Something is broken.

What is the distance from your home to her place of work?

Is Kirkcaldy where her ‘normal’ place of work is?

So, on a normal day she does about 40 miles on council business

and on a day she commutes into the office she’d do 44?

If I’m out of the office I only claim if its more than I’d normally do.

Her normal place of work is wherever the interviews take place. She uses the office closest to that location to write & file reports. Kirkcaldy is the central office.

Distance from our house to Kirkcaldy office is 22 miles.

If you are based in an office then it is standard practice to only be reimbursed for the distance you travel over your normal commute.

In the 6 months she’s been doing the job, I think she’s been to Kirkcaldy maybe 4 times. And that’s not to go specifically to the office, it’s because that’s where an interview was to take place.

Start work at Kirkcaldy then claim mileage from there. Can’t claim from home address, unless that is your registered business address which it’s clearly not.

Also, when she started the job her central office was 3.5 miles away. That one is to be closed very shortly, so they transferred the administrative centre to Kirkcaldy.

Regardless of the company policy, surely she can claim back some of the 7000-or-so business miles she does a year via Self Assessment?

And what if she didnt have a car ?

I claim direct from my house to where ever im going.

Reason being is – if i wasnt going there id be traveling by bike to the office.

It was only disputed once, to which i replied next time ill get a taxi and put the reciept in.

Kirkcaldy is her base then so if they keep her under the 44 mile it is for her to travel there then they don’t have to pay. She could insist on starting there before travelling to interviews then you’d not be paying to travel to the interviews.

Your best bet is to call HMRC. They are actually very helpful.

Also, when she started the job her central office was 3.5 miles away. That one is to be closed very shortly, so they transferred the administrative centre to Kirkcaldy.
Regardless of the company policy, surely she can claim back some of the 7000-or-so business miles she does a year via Self Assessment?

It all depends on where her official office base is. This should be in her contract. If she was aware of the planned office closure when she was recruited and agreed to the change then there is little she can do.
If she didn’t know or agree to a change in office base, then she is probably due some relocation money – or at least a negotiation about working from home and claiming business miles.

Of course, she should just be lucky to have a cushy public sector job and suck it up 😉

Hehe. She doesn’t like the jibes about her gold-plated pension, I’ll give her that.

I just think they’re taking the piss a little, what with the convenient location of 95% of her interviews and the 30+ hours of work (not including travelling) on an 18 hour contract.

I get to be the arsehole though, for pointing out exactly how much she’d earn if she was paid properly for her time 🙄

She can claim those mileage expenses on her self assessment tax return, but unless she already has to submit one annually, think twice before registering as it is a bit of a faff just for a few quid.

7000 miles (at a guess, probably more like 8000) at 45p per mile is not “a few quid”.

It’s not 45p per mile though, it’s tax relief on 45p per mile.

As said above – if her daily travel is less than her daily commute then she doesn’t qualify for business mileage. Her option is to head to Kirkcaldy (in her own time) and start from there. She’d need to weigh up whether or not that extra commuting time made the mileage claim worthwhile.

Your best bet is to call HMRC. They are actually very helpful

^^^This^^^ They have a duty to inform you how to pay less tax.

You don’t need to go down the self assessment route at all. Keep a log of all journeys (a nice excel spreadsheet, or there’s loads of apps for this now) and file one of these every year.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM32350.htm

Section 337 ITEPA 2003
An employee who holds a travelling appointment can deduct all of their business travelling expenses as travel in the performance of the duties of the employment, even where the journey starts from home.

“Her normal place of work is wherever the interviews take place”

I presume that the interviews take place at clients homes/offices?

I reckon that in that case it falls into the ‘travelling appointments’ – HMRC guidance: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM32366.htm

If she’s only attended Kirkaldy occasionally, and not as a ‘regular’ trip then it can’t be a permanent workplace, http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM32070.htm or a ‘depot’ http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM32163.htm

In fact, I think this example may fit your wife’s position best: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM32162.htm – and it says all costs are deductable

Has she tried a proper grievance procedure? There are wider issues here to be taken into account that would be relevant in a complaint, for example if she is not being classed as commuting rather than travelling on official business then she may not be covered by employers liability insurance or death in service benefit etc, plus there are issues with insurance that need to be resolved (commuting or business use) – all of which are pretty important.

I think that invalidation of her car insurance may be one of the strongest arguments for a grievance procedure, and if the council respond that she needs business use insurance (and may already be asking for proof of this) then it undermines their own argument on travel expenses.

Yes she could claim at the end of the year (P87) but she would only get back the ‘tax’ as it reduces here income (ie. she would get back about 10p a mile rather than the 45p a mile she should be getting from the employer)

It’s not 45p per mile though, it’s tax relief on 45p per mile.

It’s still nearly £700 though. For an hour filling in a form and sending it to HMRC? That’s tax and insurance paid, plus enough left over for a weekend jaunt to the continent with spending money. I reckon that’s worth the time.

How does it work with being self-employed then? Back when I was contracting I got 40p/mile, in my hand, for all travel I did. That went through HMRC Self Assessment for 5 years and they never suggested I should be getting 40p/mile *tax relief* instead, despite a couple of exceedingly thorough investigations.

Also, my current employer re-imburses me 45p/mile, net of tax, for all business miles. Am I going to get stung for underpayment?

no. 45p/mile is the hmrc recommended compensation for using your own vehicle for business use. you do 100 miles company business, your company pays you 45 quid, you pay all the costs including fuel out of that.
if your company pays less than this then you can claim tax relief on the difference IIRC, if they pay more then however much over you are paid will attract tax as a benefit.
basically it’s to allow you to run and maintain your vehicle, where otherwise you would be out of pocket, but should not benefit you.
when you were being paid 40p/mile this would have been a few years ago i guess?
i first started about 13 years ago, and the rate was 45p, then it dropped to 40p, then it was raised again as a result of higher fuel costs.

for the OP, if it’s less than the commute distance to the office, total, then I don’t really see how you’re out of pocket TBH, even if ‘her’ office has moved. I forget what the rules are WRT ‘relocation’ and her Ts&Cs, but I doubt 22 miles away is covered by this.

ninfan is probably closest, as she doesn’t have a ‘normal place of work’ – she’s just not there enough, but she’d be entitled to offset all the expenditure on the car i would have thought, or a car allowance, or company vehicle, however the employer decided they wanted to do it.

As said above – if her daily travel is less than her daily commute then she doesn’t qualify for business mileage

This is incorrect, and she can claim for the miles from home to her working location – but, if the company/council policy is to only pay out if greater than the commute then she can only claim against HMRC for the tax-difference.

Where I work (public) now it is the same, and all the field-guys drive into work. And then travel out from there. Not ideal but Management made the rules so awkward that they just gave up.

Previously (in the private world) I would just claim my journey from home to wherever I was going and back again; e.g. journeys not claimed for would be home-office and office-home, any other combination were business travel.

And yes, both private and public require evidence of business cover on insurance and tbh it doesn’t cost me any more.

Also, when she started the job her central office was 3.5 miles away. That one is to be closed very shortly, so they transferred the administrative centre to Kirkcaldy.

Bingo!

I’m assuming that these standard T&C’s are the same as apply to her?

http://publications.1fife.org.uk/uploadfiles/publications/c64_TC01Termsandconditionsbooklet.pdf

Transferring to a Different Workplace
If the Council changes an employee’s normal place of work and they have to pay more for travel as a result, the additional costs of travelling to their new place of work by public transport for up to four years will be paid. If their normal place of work is changed during this time, we will recalculate their travel allowance.

ninfan – Member
Also, when she started the job her central office was 3.5 miles away. That one is to be closed very shortly, so they transferred the administrative centre to Kirkcaldy.
Bingo!
I’m assuming that these standard T&C’s are the same as apply to her?
http://publications.1fife.org.uk/uploadfiles/publications/c64_TC01Termsandconditionsbooklet.pdf

Transferring to a Different Workplace
If the Council changes an employee’s normal place of work and they have to pay more for travel as a result, the additional costs of travelling to their new place of work by public transport for up to four years will be paid. If their normal place of work is changed during this time, we will recalculate their travel allowance.

*coughs

It all depends on where her official office base is. This should be in her contract. If she was aware of the planned office closure when she was recruited and agreed to the change then there is little she can do.
If she didn’t know or agree to a change in office base, then she is probably due some relocation money – or at least a negotiation about working from home and claiming business miles.

Yup, I thought that having the councils own T&C’s to quote might be worthwhile though 😀

For what its worth, from whats been said about going to interviews, I’m not convinced that she’s ‘temporarily working from another workplace’ rather than ‘travelling for work’ – according to that handbook they are treated differently.