So, another year, another MoreCash mental health query.....
Having another little wobble and the GP is considering 10mg of this as an option, but has given me a couple of weeks to think about it and to see if the counselling arranged by work helps at all.
Any real world experiences? Seems to have a similar number of possible unpleasant side effects as the mirtazapine I was offered last year, and declined.
It's so good to be back having conversations with medical people that always include the question "Have you thought about harming yourself recently?"
And I'm in awe of the number of mental health apps and websites that GPs have stored on their private smart phones.
Cheers
Oh yes - I'm already looking into a higher dose of MTFU and yes, I have got out this morning for a ride.
At one point I was up to 60mg a day of it. For me, it never made a difference. Made me really hot, raised core temperature.
I heard someone once say depression is a consequence of MTFU too many times before, which i thought was quite good.
You GP knows you better than anyone on here. Seems like you'd be better to listen to his/her advice.
Felt like a zombie on that at uni, also completely lost the libido which didn't help! Think I was on 20mg to start with then went to 40mg then weened myself off over 4-5 months as it was seriously hampering my Uni work.
Sister was also on citalopram too but she didn't notice any effects what so ever so the doc changed her over to something else.
I wouldn't touch this shit. It's treating the symptons, not the cause.
I use citalopram after some heavy duty life changes a couple of years back..
I'm against taking pills for your mood in principal, but after years of struggling with depression and anxiety, and nearly going under during that difficult time, I'm being a bit more pragmatic about it..
I find it makes me slightly less irritable and subtly more positive about life without any real side effects..
That said, the first couple of weeks can possibly feel a bit weird as your serotonin levels shift about..
I experienced a similar sensation to taking ecstasy, but without the nice bits..
Think excessive yawning, a slightly strange rushing in my ears and slight eyeball flutter, but it passed very quickly, and the reduced anxiety more than made up for it..
I've tried Mirtazapine too, but that was a lot less subtle and left me feeling very lethargic and drugged
It's treating the symptons, not the cause.
That may be true, unless the cause is clinical depression 😀
Been on citalopram for years, I find I sweat quite easily , sleep has been disturbed a bit too but overall it keeps me sane.
Anyone who tells you to mtfu has obviously no idea.
It sounds like you have a good Dr, as 10mg is a sensibly low dose.
(i've seen a few friends knocked for 6 after being prescribed 40mg...)
You shouldn't have too many problems adjusting to, and ultimately coming off, a 10mg dose. Both of which can be tricky. I'm told that withdrawal can be worse than the original symptoms...
(it is of course possible that you end up *increasing* from 10mg, but it seems your Dr wants to proceed slowly)
Been on it for 7 years IIRC.
Started up to 40/60mg (can't recall), been on 20mg / day for last 6 years.
Personally I love the stuff - probably dependant / addicted now though, although I intend to just keep taking it for life, so not really a problem.
worked well for me for 9 months when suffering depression - weened of it gradually on my own no problem after a year, would take it again if required
It didn't help me, made me feel unwell and made me more anxious...but there are other medications out there so find what works for you.
Mixed reviews but interesting reading. Couple of weeks still to think it through anyway.
Nothing works straight away, it takes time and can feel worse to begin with before it helps. Mind you, having said that, the same is true of counselling - maybe a couple of weeks really isn’t enough of that to knwo if it is helping either?
Rachel
It's treating the symptons, not the cause.
the idea is that treating the symptoms can give you the energy and drive to address the cause(s). It's not an either/or situation.
there are other anti-depressants around and you can find comparison tables on t'internet explaining how long they take to kick in, likely side-effects etc. There are differences even between drugs in the same class.
I totally agree with the suggestion that depression is a consequence of MTFU too many times before
There's no one size fits all approach, 10mg may be all you need to take the edge off things for a while.
There are other alternatives, Sertraline is one amongst many. It's worth keeping a diary charting your mood and any positive vs negative effects.
Good luck OP!
I know people for whom it really works. I would suggest given it a go but with regular appointments at your GP, as I said there are other medications available and it's about finding what works for you.
CBT and counselling also have their place.
Nothing works straight away,
That was conventional wisdom with SSRIs, but recent studies have shown changes in cognitive and physiological behaviour within very short periods (hours).
Personally I found Citalopram 'cured' my anxiety / insomnia in 2-3 days, way faster than I was expecting, like a switch in my head had been flicked....
oh - that’s interesting, footflaps - ta
Sorry to hear it Cash, give the Mrs a call if you want another opinion, whether she is any use or not is another matter, you're slightly older than her normal patients
recent studies have shown changes in cognitive and physiological behaviour within very short periods
I certainly found that to be the case
I was [i]extremely[/i] stressed when I started taking it and noticed the effects immediately
Has your vit d been tested?
I dabbled with a some different SSRIs a few years ago. The two I started with (Fluoxetine, and then I think it was Citalopram) were awful. That's not to say it won't work for you though; give it a whirl.
Currently take Venlafaxine (Effexor) which I have done since then; seems to do the trick.
What about some 5HTTP or St Johns Wort? Might be enough to get you through a rough patch whilst the weather is lousy.
Has your vit d been tested?
+1
go for the canadian RDAs, not ours...
wifes on a small dose of citalopram, but she is a bit lazy and doesn't exercise a lot (just pays the gym fees).
I remember when she used to swim a lot and she was much more upbeat naturally.
Maybe there is another form of exercise other than cycling that might help you more.
Provided a very useful helping hand for a while 1-2 years. Gave me headspace to get my stuff together and address the causes.
Oh and watch the numb lips when you come off it, mine wasn't a textbook taper but it wasn't cold turkey either.
I've been on it twice, once when I was still at school doing my GCSEs and again when I had a bit of a funny turn back in 2008.
I never got on with it at all. Both times made me feel zombified, have troubles staying awake, and thus worsened my depression.
I managed a couple of months on them both times but soon stopped taking them as the side effects were worse than the original depression.
Having said that, I haven't had much luck with any of the Dr prescribed meds for long term depression. What has worked for me over the years is a combination of self-help, a few sessions with a psychoanalyst (the couch and "tell me about your father" routine), good diet (avoiding alcohol, caffeine, and anything artificial where possible) regular exercise (one of the reasons I took up cycling) and a loving family to pick me up when I have difficult days.
If you feel you need meds then do a little bit of research into 5-HTP. I've taken it in the past during bad periods and found it worked really well for me. I had no side effects and managed to come off it without any troubles once I was back on my feet. Be careful where you buy it from though as some brands contain valerian extract, an unnecessary additive which can knock you out. Lamberts / Nature's Best 5-HTP tablets are the best in my opinion.
I took this for a while after a tough year took it's toll on me. It wasn't a night and day improvement, but seemed to even things out - got rid of the very worst days. That gave me some breathing room to sort my head / life out without my negative outlook clouding my judgement.
The downside was the impact of coming off it, which I did as soon as I felt ready - I don't like drugs. Even with a gradual cutting down over 2 weeks I got vertigo, dizziness and (importantly for someone struggling with depression) could not ride my bike for 2 weeks. 😯
Still - overall I think it was of net benefit.
Still - overall I think it was of net benefit.
😀
It helped me get back on a more even keel. I was concerned about taking anything but after a rough start with side effects (which was pretty rough for me) suddenly you start to see things much clearer, its quite odd.
I took it for a year or so then weaned myself off it gradually and have replaced it with Yoga and more exercise and some counselling.
It was what I needed but i couldn't see it at the time
More excellent feedback.
Current and previous conversations suggest that the causes of my confusion (possibly the right term?) are fairly specific beliefs and behaviours and mainly triggered by a change in job role last year. Hopefully counselling will give me some head space to sensibly sort out options and directions with someone who has no actual involvement in the final outcomes.
A couple of friends have been zombiefied by anti-depressants recently, and that is why I'm keen to avoid them if possible. Riding is the only thing that has been consistently good over the last few months, and I don't want to lose that. I've also started the Couchto5k running thing to keep things moving in the rubbish weather.
Alcohol, and especially caffeine have really made me jittery and anxious, so I've had to cut right down on them. Which is depressing.... 😉
Magnesium - use Epsom Salts in the bath. Interesting reading here especially re neuro transmitters:
HEALTHASITOUGHTTOBE.COM Magnesium - use Epsom Salts in the bath
I accept the value of minerals in the diet but I'm interested to know how much you think will be absorbed through the skin. Do you have a reference to bathing in substances instead of ingesting them via the normal route?
Anyway, andyfla - whats a good day for a meet up and a ride in the next two weeks - silver linings and all that!
works wonders for me 20mg a day
I would say the only way you are going to tell is by trying it. Citalopram is a different beast to Mirtazapine, working on a different set of neurotransmitters. Everyone is different and everyone reacts differently to the various types of antidepressants.
Good info here:
The worst experience I had on citalopram was when I Googled the side effects after taking my first dose (20mg) - that made me acutely aware of every tiny feeling in my body and so I barely slept. Once I realised that the vast majority of people don't suffer anything I relaxed and got on with it. I didn't really notice any major shift in my mood but it did reduce the anxiety that I wasn't aware I was suffering with. For a while I went to 40mg but found that wiped me out, so went back down to 20 and stayed there for a couple of years.
As for all the bs about it treating symptoms rather than the problem, that's exactly what pain killers do when you're recovering from an injury. They give you the ability to do the work to rebuild your damaged body. I found that citalopram did the same for my mind, I worked through cbt, mindfulness and with a local MIND support group and they all helped me to come to terms with myself again.
Ask your DR for Escitalopram. It has less side effects and works as well, if not better than Citalopram. Essentially a more selective version of the original drug.
NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV I had citalopram about 10 years ago. It made me more anxious to start with, and then helped my mood but exacerbated my migraines. I've tried virtually every antidepressant there is, and can't tolerate any of them. I'm on a waiting list for CBT and in the meantime I'm doing an insomnia treatment programme to help me sleep better.
Cash, no riding at the mo - just had my knee cut into !
Always happy to have coffee and cake here though 😀
Ask your DR for Escitalopram. It has less side effects and works as well, if not better than Citalopram. Essentially a more selective version of the original drug.
How well they work is more to do with the individual than the drug.
It's not more selective, it's just a tweaked version designed purely because the patent on Citalopram has expired, so they need to keep coming up with new variants to make money.
Not tried Citalopram but I did have Sertraline, for me it was awful and I decided that anti depressants weren't for me. I also had a few sessions of CBT therapy on the NHS but I found those of limited value. What really helped me witgh my depression was Transactional analysis therapy. Unfortunately not cheap (£50 a session) and also not currently available on the NHS, but it did work for me.
It's not more selective, it's just a tweaked version designed purely because the patent on Citalopram has expired, so they need to keep coming up with new variants to make money.
The patent on escitalopram expired too, over 18 months ago, and generics are freely available.
Worked for me, and I was incredibly wary of taking it. Didn't use it for long - just long enough to get my head straight and into some useful CBT.
Mrs North took it after seroxat made her very ill. Citalopram also worked for her - though she said CBT was the life saver for her.
Hope you get well soon MoreCashThanDash.
It works for me. Reduces feelings of anxiety and lifts my mood. I did get more anxious initially, but that died down within two weeks. I do suffer side effects: -
- reduced sex drive by a degree
- less sensitive to initial sexual stimulation
- occasional restless feet
- I am often tired
- some sleep disturbance
On the other hand - I don't prefer the idea of being dead to being alive. This as far as I am personally concerned is a huge positive.
The patent on escitalopram expired too, over 18 months ago, and generics are freely available.
Surprisingly, they don't have another SSRI replacement under Patent...
Maybe there isn't much money in SSRI now as so many are out of patent.
EDIT: They're also naughty boys...
On June 19, 2013, the European Commission imposed a fine of €93.8 million on Lundbeck and fined several producers of generic pharmaceuticals a total of €52.2 million after Lundbeck made agreements in 2002 with the other companies to delay less expensive generics of Lundbeck's citalopram from entering the market. In return for the ability to maintain a monopoly on the drug's manufacture, Lundbeck offered payments and other kickbacks.
