anyone had steel frames chromed or nickeled? which is the tougher? could you even copper a steel frame? building a new bike and looking for a different look

get a 953 frame and have it polished?

953 for shineyness?

Tony Oliver had some thoughts about chrome-plating in his book Touring Bikes.
“Chrome is debated and argued about at great length. As far as I am concerned there is no debate; I simply forbid an on my frames. I allowed chrome on a few frames a long time ago but I soon learned my lesson and now I simply refuse. Chrome is forbidden by Reynolds on their 753 as it causes hydrogen embrittlement, a technical term for ‘it will eventually break’. Columbus make recommendations in their catalouge stating that they do not recommend the use of chrome on their products but, if you must have it, a certain procedure should be followed. (It is strange that most Italian frames are covered with chrome!)
The chroming process physically and chemically does all sorts of nasty things to your frame. Firstly, considerable amounts of metal are stripped from the parts to be chromed at the polishers. The metal surfaces must be totally free from blemishes, so what are already thin tubes may be made even thinner. After polishing, the tubes are dunked in acids, neutralising baths and all sorts of corrosive brews – not the way to treat a precision work of art.
Eventually the chrome rusts. Modern chroming techniques, although conforming to quoted standards, do not include the copper and nickel layers foung on older frames. Copper forms a non-porous barrier stopping moisture reaching the steel wheras chrome, being porours allows the steel/water reaction to occur – rusting. The problem now is to remove the rusty mess before it can be resprayed or, if you have not learnt your lesson, rechromed. There are reverse chemical /electrical methods of removal but usually a big nasty-looking file is used. If the chrome is not totally removed it will continue to flake after painting, taking new paint with it.

….”
There is more but that gives some idea of what his thoughts were on chrome-plating bike frames.

macavity wins, topic closed!

Polished and clear laquered like this one

My mate owns a metal finishing firm. He laughs at Tony Oliver.

Since we’re getting the scare stories out, painting often involves also dipping the frame in all sorts of mental chemicals to strip all paint and grease off the frame and / or blasting tiny bits of sand and grit under silly high pressures to smash off old paint and leave a rough surface for the new paint to stick. This is likely to do as much damage if not more to those thin tubes as polishing. Its then subjected to enough heat to potentially alter and soften the welds.

Both copper and nickel are too soft on their own to stay looking good for long by themselves, you’d need a good clear coat on top.

i have a nickel plated Tange Prestige mtb frame built by Wheeler Industries. Best finish I have ever had…..eight years without a spot of rust!. I am thinking of getting my Cotic Soul done.

While people are talking about chrome, can you powder coat over it? or should i only be looking at normal paints (its a chromed rack i have, PCing frame and want to do rack at same time)

+1 for Macavity.

Half-chrome was all the rage in the 70s.
Friend had a touring bike (like a road bike but slower) with the forks and rear stays half-chromed.

On one tour the front gave way….a fork blade had finally corroded just above the plating line (almost entirely internally), no doubt acid etch induced (and probably accelerated) corrosion and thinning to the point where it could not support the rider on a corner.
Result was a broken collarbone and some missed schooling….not ideal just before his A-levels.

I would not touch a half- or full-chromed frame ever, be it with or without a copper base.

PaulD

Since we’re getting the scare stories out, painting often involves also dipping the frame in all sorts of mental chemicals to strip all paint and grease off the frame and / or blasting tiny bits of sand and grit under silly high pressures to smash off old paint and leave a rough surface for the new paint to stick. This is likely to do as much damage if not more to those thin tubes as polishing. Its then subjected to enough heat to potentially alter and soften the welds.

^ That. How many times do people post on here about sand blasting and powder coating, esp. ali frame where rough surface = breeding ground for cracks

On one tour the front gave way….a fork blade had finally corroded just above the plating line (almost entirely internally), no doubt acid etch induced (and probably accelerated) corrosion and thinning to the point where it could not support the rider on a corner.

That sounds like bi-metallic anodic corrosion (also known as composition cells) to me. An unfortunate thing that happens when two metals are in contact with each other, one becomes the anode (the steel) and the other, the cathode. Basically means that over time, the steel will rust (and if the electrolyte is in permanent contact with both the metals then will rust through).

My Merlin Tange Prestige in nickle plate lasted for years without a spot of rust…until I sold it to a ‘friend’ who leaves it outside and does sod all to maintain it!

Macavity wins. I have a chrome set of forks on my road bike and they are not 1 year old and a pitting and begining to rust. Never again. I am going to have to buy a new fork now.

I wonder can a chromed fork be stripped easily? I kind of wonder if they be blasted and painted or would that not work.

I nickel plated my splatty Explosif in the mid nineties. It was fine for as long as I had it afterwards (5-6 years).

Plenty of Raleigh Burners from the 80’s and probably other BMX’s that were chromed(and not very well) still survive and they have been abused by kids and adults alike.

I have a set of frame and forks in my garage at the moment that appear perfectly healthy and must be 25years old at least.

Lumme that Curtis is nice…

Plenty of Raleigh Burners from the 80’s and probably other BMX’s that were chromed(and not very well) still survive and they have been abused by kids and adults alike.

What macavity quoted was

Chrome is forbidden by Reynolds on their 753 as it causes hydrogen embrittlement

Thin tubes made of certain clever alloys – not thick heavy bog standard tubes on bikes made to farm gate specifications.

stato – my chrome inbred 456 has been powdercoated, 5 years and looking good so far. to be totally revamped in 2 years for my 40th.

Another frame designer and builder (motorbike) Tony Foale has written in his book Motor Cycle Chassis Design : the theory and practice.
“Plating
Although attractive in appearance, this can be expensive if a first-class result is required. It also tends to highlight any visual flaws, such as lumpy welds and scratches.
Acids from the plating process can become trapped in some tubes, either if the joints are not fully sealed by welding or if the drain holes are not provided. By causing stress concentration, such holes can lead to premature fatigue failure. Trapped acids can eventually give rise to internal corrosion and can leach out at the welds, so causing rust areas and spoiling the finish.
A further risk with plating is hydrogen embrittlement. Here, hydrogen evolved during the plating process is trapped in the grain boundries of the steel and can lead to failure. In this respect nickel plating is preferable to chromium. Indeed, in Formula 1 car racing chromium plating is banned on suspension parts for safety.
Despite the potential pitfalls, it has to be said that Rickman Metisse frames, among others, have long been nickel plated, seemingly without trouble.”

Chrome-plating when done well does look good, but seems to be hit and miss. Hydrogen embrittlement can be a matter of luck as well.

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-016/index.html