RepacK - MemberJust remembered something a buddy of mine who runs a bike shop in San Francisco told me about Litespeed: He said their manufacturing skills couldnt be all that bad as they were making Ti components for NASA. Now some may say "NASA huh?.." but Id rather have their endorsement than ooohh say those blokes in a shed who knocked up the Trabant..
Hardly a crumb. More like a full page advert with prices.
I'd happily drop £600 for a Ti frame.
If it breaks it can always be fixed - no worries about stuffing up the paintwork 
Top grade 'pure' Ti would be far too spensive for any manufacturer to use,
It would also make a crap frame. Alloyed Ti (with Vanadium and Aluminium) is at least twice as strong as Commercially Pure Ti
Does anyone know who the Russian manufacturer that Burls use to make their titanium frames is?
This thread has given me an urge to relentlessly plug the next Hit the North, regarless of the supposed rules.
February 2010 for a sprinter
July 17th 2010 for a full-fat 8 hour MTB/CX crossover enduro with rock band, mariachi artiste hiding in the woods and a licenced bar.
Anyone up for that? Yeh? YEH?
Rudeboy:I sat through a two day conference at the national welding institute
What an incredibly exciting life you lead... 
I went fishing & look what I caught - a druid! 
Leave druidh alone.
His Onion bike is quite nice!
"good skills by dave@planetx he dropped the crumbs and let everyone jump in must have been getting some tips from Brant on marketing"
- Who do you think brant learnt it all from in the first place ?
Anyhow , back to OP - anyone is welcome at bikeradar live to come have a go , or just have a beer or if it not tipping down a bit of bar b q and we could be dishing out a few e-coli burgers .
Druidh you seriously need to sort the moss out 
Hi, I've been in-touch with the factory, they gave me an email address of a gentleman (?) in Holland who is the European dist. Check my profile for my email add and I'll email it to you.
She wouldn't quote me over the phone/email but has invited me to their offices, so I'll go on Wednesday and have a chat (on my way to Laoshan Olympic MTB course) and I'll see how much they are there.
That gentleman in Holland. Is it Marije Voskuijl?
all I know is that it's a jw@something (don't want to break to forum rules)
Ah - OK. Just thought it might have been the Van Nicholas guys as they are based in Holland.
This is great...I sign up for the singletrack forum and this is the first topic I stumble across! I am metallurgist you see (well, a Materials Scientist technically, but more metals than anything else) and I have a special interest in titanium alloys.
I can't see why Chinese Ti would be any better or worse than American or Russian Ti. The technology to cast and work Ti is pretty standard. What will make more of a difference is what specification the Ti is released to. If the American supplier is making to spec A and the Chinese to spec B then yes they will be different but if not, they're likely to be indistinguishable.
There was a comment above about Russian and Chinese Ti being worse because they have 're-used material' in. This is called revert and everybody does it. Most of the titanium available on the world market includes revert. Ti would be stupidly expensive if people didn't. If On-One aren't using revert then they're mad.
Any difference between the USA supplier and the Chinese will come in the welding and heat treatment, which are moderately complex. However, it's not so much about nationality - there are some appalling American suppliers, believe me, and excellent Chinese ones, and vice versa. It's about trained welders and decent vacuum ovens, which are very gettable in either country. If the welding is accredited and the welds are x-rayed and crack tested then I'd be just as happy on a Chinese bike as an American one.
The disappointing thing to me is that we have to use Grade 9 Ti, also called 'half 6/4'. It's easy to make into tube but it's pathetically weak. With a bit more effort I reckon a Grade 5 frame is possible which is much stronger and therefore lighter...
Sorry about the essay post, you can tell I enjoy my job working with these alloys (and Aluminium! I understand Al too if anyone wants to start a thread about that!)
Cheers,
Jon
Although to be fair if they're trying not to make it TOO flexy then maybe thinner tubing is not desirable so why bother having a stronger alloy, in which case fair enough.
Jon
I've posted this previously but it seemsrelevant to re-post it here:-
According to Mark Lynskey Ti is Ti:-
"As to the raw materials; did you know that everybody's starter materials (tube hollows) come from either Russia or China. Yes that includes Sandvick, Haynes, Wolverine, and Reynolds. Yes the tubes that these companies create using Chinese and Russian raw materials do in fact go to aerospace/defense use as well as bicycle frames (including ours). "
Read the whole comment here.
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49167
jw@..... sounds a lot like the Van Nich guy (or more specifically, the airborne guy who sorted me out a few yrs ago)
apparently it IS the Van Nich guy (someone has emailed them, and let me know the reply)
This is great...I sign up for the singletrack forum and this is the first topic I stumble across! I am metallurgist you see (well, a Materials Scientist technically, but more metals than anything else) and I have a special interest in titanium alloys.
Welcome to STW Jon.
You are just what this forum needs. Somebody who actually does know what they are talking about
silverpigeon - MemberThis is great...I sign up for the singletrack forum and this is the first topic I stumble across! I am metallurgist you see (well, a Materials Scientist technically, but more metals than anything else) and I have a special interest in titanium alloys.
Welcome to STW Jon.
You are just what this forum needs. Somebody who actually does know what they are talking about
We don't want their type round here
Didn't Specialized stop making their S Works frames in the US (in about 2001 i think) becasue Taiwan and the far east could producde better welds than the Yanks could?
The best Ti welds I've ever seen on a bike have been on Moots frames, no two ways about it.
You haven't seen my welding
you can get 6-4 ti tubing still (despite the rumours of its demise)
its not seamed welded tubing either
im assuming trent 900 you have something to do with that little firm that makes wirly round air suck through things down moor lane in derby
best welds i ever saw were on the trent 500 COC
what's a trent 500 COC ?
isn't pointing at welds and saying "ooh those are smooth" just another form of tyre-kicking?
what's a trent 500 COC ?
isn't pointing at welds and saying "ooh those are smooth" just another form of tyre-kicking?
Certainly not. I'll have you know that modern fingers are capable of electromagnetic and ultrasonic NDT.
However visual inspection is sometimes enough to spot horrific welding.
what's a trent 500 COC ?
Im gonna guess and say a combustor outer casing. In which case its most probably a Inco718 or C263 EBW weld. Harder to weld than Titanium!
All this talk of "quality welds" is nonsense. What you mean is how "pretty" the welding is. I see horrible looking welds pass aerospace acceptance standards / crack test etc, and i see "pretty" welds fail specs / crack test etc. Dont think a pretty weld always = a good weld.
Does anyone know if Titanium frames have the welds x-rayed? Seems a bit OTT for me.
popped into the local shop this morning, and whilst browsing came across this;
It has 2 screw like thingies, so that the frame can be taken apart and placed into a suitcase. This particular bike had 700c wheels, V brakes and was made up like a tourer. Quite nice really.
The screw thingies are made in the USA and then imported into China.
so then, could anyone tell the difference between the Lynsky and Airborne 456?
suntingwang:
http://www.sandsmachine.com/
This topic has been closed to new replies.
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