Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 160 total)
  • Centre lane drivers!
  • Olly
    Free Member

    I do it to annoy you.

    i'll stop doing it when you ASSHATS stop driving around with you lights on.

    falkirk-mark
    Full Member

    If someone is in the centre lane hogging it why would you undertake him FFS ? 2 wrongs increase the chance of a crash. there is another lane you could overtake him in (the overtaking lane ).

    Surf-Mat
    Free Member

    Middle lane? Nearest on of those is Exeter, 70 miles away!

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    richmtb
    Full Member

    If I'm driving in the left hand lane at 70mph and some myopic old fool is doing 60-65mph in the middle lane why should I have to drive around them?

    i'll stop doing it when you ASSHATS stop driving around with you lights on.

    Driving with your lights on doesn't bother me in the slightest, anything that increases a vehicles visibility to other traffic is a good thing. Only people who don't have the good sense to drive in the correct lane would disagree

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Olly, may I suggest you join these guys:
    The UK Association of Drivers against Daytime Running Lights.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    If I'm driving in the left hand lane at 70mph and some myopic old fool is doing 60-65mph in the middle lane why should I have to drive around them?

    Likewise, if I'm doing the speed limit and using the middle lane to legitimately overtake someone, why should I have to pull into the left lane and brake just because someone wants to go faster than me?

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    richmtb – Member

    If I'm driving in the left hand lane at 70mph and some myopic old fool is doing 60-65mph in the middle lane why should I have to drive around them?

    Are you for real? Because that is the safe and legal thing to do rather than the unsafe and illegal practise of undertaking.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    If someone is in the centre lane hogging it why would you undertake him FFS ? 2 wrongs increase the chance of a crash.

    According to the Highway Code, it's legal to overtake on the left to pass slower-moving traffic. Some coffin-dodger doing 55mph in the middle lane falls into this category as far as I'm concerned.

    there is another lane you could overtake him in (the overtaking lane ).

    a) there's no such thing as an overtaking lane, and
    b) if there was, he's already bloody in it.

    The sooner we get away from this conception of 'fast' lanes, 'slow' lanes, 'overtaking' lanes and 'cruising' lanes, hopefully the sooner people will stop driving like spoons. On a three-lane carriageway, both the second and third lanes are for overtaking. If you're not overtaking (or about to be), then you shouldn't be in them.

    falkirk-mark
    Full Member

    If I'm driving in the left hand lane at 70mph and some myopic old fool is doing 60-65mph in the middle lane why should I have to drive around them?

    Because if they are a myopic old fool then how do you know he will not drift back into your (inside)lane without checking some myopic young fool is stupidly undertaking in it, as said before two wrongs do not make a right

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Cougar – Member

    According to the Highway Code, it's legal to overtake on the left to pass slower-moving traffic. Some coffin-dodger doing 55mph in the middle lane falls into this category as far as I'm concerned.

    Have a look in the highway code – it no longer has that advice IIRC – and does not apply to motorways even when it did.

    falkirk-mark
    Full Member

    .

    On a three-lane carriageway, both the second and third lanes are for overtaking. If you're not overtaking (or about to be), then you shouldn't be in them

    there's no such thing as an overtaking lane,

    both your quotes in the same post Cougar and you have contradicted yourself

    Cougar
    Full Member

    What's safer, passing on the left or having to make four lane changes (1 > 2 > 3 > 2 > 1) to go round a paid-up member of the Lane Two Owner's Club?

    Surf-Mat
    Free Member

    One justification for middle lane "hogging" – when it's really wet, the middle lane is usually the best drained one – handy for not aquaplaning into the central reservation.

    Too many angry and impatient children on this thread. Calm down, chill out, don't die.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    both your quotes in the same post Cougar and you have contradicted yourself

    Only if you're being pedantic. They're for overtaking, they're not called "overtaking lanes".

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    The sooner we get away from this conception of 'fast' lanes and 'overtaking' lanes, hopefully the sooner people will stop driving like spoons.

    I'd say someone attempting an undertaking manoeuvre is as much of a spoon as the guy sat in the middle lane.

    richmtb
    Full Member

    Likewise, if I'm doing the speed limit and using the middle lane to legitimately overtake someone, why should I have to pull into the left lane and brake just because someone wants to go faster than me?

    Who says you should. If you are overtaking slower traffic then you are using the outside lanes correctly. Personally if I am overtaking slower traffic and I see someone coming up quickly from behind I either speed up so I clear the lane sooner or wait for the quciker car to pass and then overtake. With good anticipation it shouldn't really be neccesary to brake maybe just coast for a short time (all this assumes the traffic is flowing freely and the motorway is not too busy of course)

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    According to the Highway Code, it's legal to overtake on the left to pass slower-moving traffic. Some coffin-dodger doing 55mph in the middle lane falls into this category as far as I'm concerned.

    Nope.

    Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
    Rule 268, Highway Code

    You can only overtake on the left in a queue. Not just because someone in the middle lane is going a bit slower than you'd like.

    Bitching that they are not following the Highway Code and then breaking it yourself makes very little sense.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    One justification for middle lane "hogging" – when it's really wet, the middle lane is usually the best drained one – handy for not aquaplaning into the central reservation.

    Not in my experience, usually the wagons do a good job of clearing the first lane. Plus any lane that was used the most would be driest, so stick left.

    The sooner we get away from this conception of 'fast' lanes and 'overtaking' lanes, hopefully the sooner people will stop driving like spoons.

    They are lanes for overtaking. The people driving like spoons are the ones that get in the way when they could be over to the left. If people followed the rules there would be far fewer problems on the road, higher speeds would be acceptably low-risk as things would be more predictable. Instead its a free-for-all and everyone gets caught up. I have been known to "undertake" simply because pulling out into the outside lane would be a danger from inside-lane speeds. Plus it has the tendency to make the daydreaming middle lane hog realise their error and carefully pull in.

    Surf-Mat
    Free Member

    Not in my experience, usually the wagons do a good job of clearing the first lane. Plus any lane that was used the most would be driest, so stick left.

    Nope – the road's midpoint is slightly raised to help drainage so is drier. Inside lane is often rutted by lorry wheels so more dangerous. Obviously only when it's pretty clear though – when the traffic is "normal" stick to the correct lane.

    But there's too much rage and assumption on here.

    falkirk-mark
    Full Member

    I would still say passing in the proper lane is safer as if you have a problem with someone not being on the inside lane I am assuming it is because it is empty/quiet (so therefore not a great awareness of what is happening around them) so you are going to undertake him (which is the last thing they are likely to be expecting) and you think that is safer (What if they decide mid undertake to go to the inside lane)?

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Who says you should. If you are overtaking slower traffic then you are using the outside lanes correctly.

    Yeah, but it goes back to my earlier point: on a 3+ lane motorway I wouldn't pull in to the left lane if I could see I was going to be there for less than ten seconds before I had to pull out again.

    That could mean choosing not to pull in, despite a 400 foot gap between cars (assuming a 20mph difference in speeds). Many would consider that to be hogging and would prefer me to pull in and reduce my speed.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Nope – the road's midpoint is slightly raised to help drainage so is drier.

    Never noticed that, found my cars always pull to the left on motorways suggesting camber is out to the left. That said, they do have drainage on the central res so it'd be odd if there was not tilted that way. But many times I've driven down rain-soaked motorways to see the water crossing the motorway where the camber has changed from "normal" to banked for a bend. Ruts in the inside lane are not fun, no, but you can hover outside the ruts fairly easily.

    richmtb
    Full Member

    I would still say passing in the proper lane is safer as if you have a problem with someone not being on the inside lane I am assuming it is because it is empty/quiet (so therefore not a great awareness of what is happening around them) so you are going to undertake him (which is the last thing they are likely to be expecting) and you think that is safer (What if they decide mid undertake to go to the inside lane)?

    I consider undertaking to be educational to the other drivers most people I undertake seem to recognise my efforts with a friendly flash of their lights as I go past. Most of them then actually use the correct lane as well once they have spotted their error!

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Buy an MG midget, that way you'll just sit in the slow lane at 60* and everythigns much more relaxing.

    *oddly, this seems to be a lot faster than some peoples '60' a friend was following me and though it was doing 75!

    bonj
    Free Member

    sometimes what's perceived as middle lane hogging is actually not, when there's a lorry to overtake about 100 yards in front that's doing 65 and i'm doing 70, but a massive stream of traffic behind that wants to do 75-80, then i will stay in the middle lane becuase if i move over then the chances are I won't be allowed back out again.

    But the number one thing that really gets up my goat is cock-ends who overtake while you are still accelerating, it really boils my piss when some knobber decides to do 0-60 in about 6 seconds, roaring past in the process, but then sits at 60. If everyone just stopped accelerating like a maniac then petrol might last a bit longer

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    But the number one thing that really gets up my goat is cock-ends who overtake while you are still accelerating, it really boils my piss when some knobber decides to do 0-60 in about 6 seconds, roaring past in the process, but then sits at 60. If everyone just stopped accelerating like a maniac then petrol might last a bit longer

    In what situation? What's wrong with accelerating faster than you choose to? In a petrol car the most efficient way of accelerating is to do so briskly and then level in speed, it reduces the throttling losses, accelerating at part throttle introduces a pumping loss that isn't required, like a clogged air filter. On a D it's not the same technique. (I'm not talking WOT, just well opened. Too far open and the ECU will enrich for more torque and fuel economy will fall). FYI Toddling along with a strangled engine taking a relative age to get up to speed helps no-one, especially not the polar bears.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    coffeeking: I thought hard acceleration should be avoided to save fuel?

    "Flow with the traffic – avoid hard acceleration and braking"
    Institute Advanced Motorists (Fuel Saving Tips PDF)

    "Studies have shown that darting in and out of traffic, and accelerating hard away during stop-start driving, saves barely any time, uses up more fuel.. try to keep your engine running at its most efficient level – between 2,000 and 3,000 revs"
    Ford (Fuel Efficient Driving Tips)

    ooOOoo
    Free Member

    I think the occasional "Keep left unless overtaking" on the VMS signs would sort this out. Seeing as the chances of a human being police officer sorting drivers out is so miniscule.

    One justification for middle lane "hogging" – when it's really wet, the middle lane is usually the best drained one – handy for not aquaplaning into the central reservation.

    What a crock! I think if you're in the inside lane, you are somewhat further from the central reservation anyway?
    That's almost as tenuous as the Middle Lane Hogger I heard on the radio who justified himself by saying "it's dangerous to change lanes" 👿
    FFS stick to the A-roads if you really are scared by motorways.

    mrchrispy
    Full Member

    anyone that fails to see that sitting in the middle lane causes problems just needs to drive on the european motorways for about an hour, it's perfectly decking obvious how and why it should be done….just pull the **** over once you are past the vehicle you've just overtook. doesn't hurt you and it let's others go about their business.

    I drove from Amsterdam to Calais and it was bliss, people pulled
    in after an overtake and those that didn't pulled in as you approached. as soon as we hit the UK it was once again back to sitting behind the idiots.

    if the road ahead is clear enough I just undertake the idiots.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Hard acceleration – no, swift acceleration (the point where giving it more throttle doesn't give you noticably more speed), yes. It's hard to explain without diagrams etc and more time.

    Your ECU fuels for the incoming air and tries to match it to its mapping. It'll try to keep that fairly lean unless it thinks you're trying to get somewhere in a hurry. It figures you're trying to get somewhere in a hurry if your throttle is at very large openings for the RPM the engine is turning or has been opened at a high rate. While it's beyond most people to spot the difference, it is there and it can be seen if you have the right datalogging kit. My fun car on its stock ECU will fuel at 14.7:1 (its idea of lean cruise, modern cars cruise leaner) even at 3/4 throttle if it is pressed smoothly. Thats enough for my car to do 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds without ever going rich. Do the same run but at full throttle, or after stabbing the throttle down fast, it'll go rich (up to 8:1 😯 ) and throw away your fuel. Theres a fine line, but if you have a good feel for yoru car its easy to drive fast and without wasting fuel. On diesels theres no throttle (generally) so the above doesn't apply, and its easy-on-the-throttle all the time to limit fuel flow. Of course accelerating slowly you do tend over toward the area where the engine can run quite lean and still produce enough power, so there's a trade-off to be had, but as far as I'm aware most cars don't run lean enough at light throttle/accel to negate the throttling losses.

    More FYI

    Cougar
    Full Member

    GrahamS > re: the undertaking rule you've quoted there:

    I take your point, I really should check these things before posting but I was short on time over lunch.

    However, the emphasis on the quote there is yours; it actually says "do not" rather than "you MUST NOT", which implies that there's no law enforcing it.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    almost as tenuous as the Middle Lane Hogger I heard on the radio who justified himself by saying "it's dangerous to change lanes"
    FFS stick to the A-roads if you really are scared by motorways.

    So unlike anti-middle-laner Cougar, who posted above that he undertook because changing lanes to overtake middle-laners was less safe?

    They are both right of course, changing lanes is riskier than sitting in the same lane.

    Hard acceleration – no, swift acceleration…complicated car stuff

    Gotcha. Interesting and fair enough, cheers ck.

    richmtb
    Full Member

    Very interesting.

    If you had a drive by wire throttle I presume the ECU and throttle would be programmed to work together to smooth out eratic throttle movements

    falkirk-mark
    Full Member

    However, the emphasis on the quote there is yours; it actually says "do not" rather than "you MUST NOT", which implies that there's no law enforcing it.

    And you are accusing me of being pedantic

    Cougar
    Full Member

    And you are accusing me of being pedantic

    (-: Good point, well made.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    However, the emphasis on the quote there is yours; it actually says "do not" rather than "you MUST NOT", which implies that there's no law enforcing it.

    I didn't say there was did I? See TJ for that.
    Though I believe any contravention of the highway code can be used as evidence of driving without due care and attention.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Very interesting.

    If you had a drive by wire throttle I presume the ECU and throttle would be programmed to work together to smooth out eratic throttle movements

    Yep, that's why some of the earlier drive by wire systems (try driving a late 90s/early00s punto) feel like there's elastic between your pedal and the throttle. Press, wait a little, here it comes, whoosh, off the throttle, christ its still going please stop…ahhh it stopping! The ECU basically attempts to see what you're wanting to do and does it the most efficient way it can. Sometimes it does it badly 🙂

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Though I believe any contravention of the highway code can be used as evidence of driving without due care and attention.

    Perhaps, but the same is true of middle-laners in that case.

    "138
    On a three-lane dual carriageway, you may use the middle lane or the right-hand lane to overtake but return to the middle and then the left-hand lane when it is safe."

    Though in practice, I can't see it being a charge in and of itself for either misdemeanour, unless you were otherwise driving like a tool and it was something else they could add to make a charge stick.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Perhaps, but the same is true of middle-laners in that case.

    Indeedly-do neighbour. Hence my bemused consternation at the irony of folk criticising middle-laners for breaking the highway code and then doing exactly the same thing themselves.

    Notice also that "when it is safe" is fairly subjective, whereas "do not overtake on the left" doesn't leave much wiggle room.

    bonj
    Free Member

    In what situation? What's wrong with accelerating faster than you choose to?

    nothing if you then maintain a faster speed than i was going to do anyway,
    but the purpose of overtaking is to travel at a faster constant cruising speed than the vehicle you are overtaking is choosing to cruise at.
    While it is still accelerating, you don't yet know at what speed the vehicle is going to cruise at, so to barge in front and then block it is just rude. It's not (necessarily) dangerous, it's just a bit selfish.

    In a petrol car the most efficient way of accelerating is to do so briskly

    not in terms of fuel consumption. Accelerating fast (ergo, at high revs) uses more fuel than keeping the revs down.

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