Viewing 9 posts - 121 through 129 (of 129 total)
  • CCDB/Decent rear shocks, how many of you use one on a 'trail' bike?
  • BIGMAN
    Free Member

    If you see i wrote LAST YEARS bikes…

    If you look last season they hardly used 951's! I don't think I saw Matt ever ride a 951 he was always on an M6!

    The linkage on the M6 is rising rate though he does not dispute that.. I think you'll find that the 951 was built to ramp up a lot quicker and is a definate example of a new VPP bike which would require zero HSC on a CC…

    psychle
    Free Member

    any ideas on how it'd work with a FSR/Horst link frame? I don't know much about 'rising/falling rates' etc, guess I'd have to learn quickly though 😉

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Hope this is correct:

    Rising rate is the same as progressive rate and means that as the suspension moves through its travel, progressively more force is needed at the wheel to compress the suspension, i.e. the suspension 'ramps up' or gets harder to compress. This also translates to 'resists bottoming out'.

    Falling rate is the same as digressive rate and is simply the reverse of the above. The force needed to compress the shock the same amount is less at the end of the travel than it is at the begining, i.e. the bigger the impact the more likely you are to bottom out the suspension.

    The leverage ratio indicates which of the above is happening so for example moving from a leverage ratio of 3:1 (three inches of wheel movement to one inch of shock movement) to 2:1 is an example of progressive or rising rate and vice versa.

    BIGMAN is indicating that the Five has a digressive or falling rate (the graphs on the Linkage Software you can get over the internet confirm this.) This means you do indeed need more HSC on a linear coil in order to resist bottom out. It might be like this however because it was designed to run an air spring, which is inherently rising rate itself (this is independent of the suspension leverage).

    Psychie, aren't you riding a Helius AM? The Linkage software shows that the AM has an initial falling rate for the first 40mm or so, making it very supple in the initial part of the travel, but after that, it become quite sharply rising rate. The rate of change is much more pronounced that that of the Orange Five (although don't forget they are going the opposite way).

    To illustrate, the Five's leverage ratio starts off at 2.8:1 and finishes at 2.9:1. The Helius starts at 3.3:1 and finishes at around 2.5:1

    If you are on an AM, that would mean you need to dial off far more HSC and on the Five, as BIGMAN says, you need to add it.

    And by the way, the CCDB works very well on the AM.

    psychle
    Free Member

    Nope, I'm riding an Enduro SL. Thanks for the reply, what is this linkage sofware you speak of? Helius AM is a FSR/horst link setup right? So it should be similar to the Enduro?

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    It is the same suspension design yes – Karl Nicolai started his career with AMP Research where the Horst Link was initially designed. I think he worked on that project hence why he uses it himself.

    However this doesn't mean that the suspension will have the same characteritics. On this linkage software the Enduro 2007 is shown as having a progressive rate for the first 100mm of travel and then digressive for the final 50mm.

    I don't know if this is 100% true, but that would seem to make sense when used with an air shock, as the digressive rate would counter the progressive rate of the air spring.

    The Linkage software can be found here:

    Linkage Demo

    Once installed choose ctrl O to open files and then choose 'Search Web Library'. There you will find files on many different bikes and models uploaded by various people.

    fivespot
    Free Member

    I have just listed my mint 200×57 CCDB (2010 Version)on the classifieds if anybody is after one 😉

    My new frame requires a 215×63 😥

    BIGMAN
    Free Member

    fivespot you do realise you can post them back to Cane Creek and get the lenght/stroke changed…

    Its a chargable service but still miles cheaper than buying new.

    fivespot
    Free Member

    Bigman, yes mate I do realise. Based on my selling price and the cost of rebuilding with parts to suit my new frame, I think it would work out about the same. Plus, if I bought a new shock it would come with the correct length steel spring included, whereas if I altered my existing shock, I would have to fork out for a spring as well 😕

    BIGMAN
    Free Member

    Ah cool… I did not think it was a huge amount of money to get it done as I was in a similar predicamemt at the start of the year until i decided to flog mine also!

Viewing 9 posts - 121 through 129 (of 129 total)

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