So the usual builders merchant/football club night out shenanigans ended with me and my best mate in the casino.
Rather than just steam in and blow a load of cash I stood for a bit, watched and chatted (annoyed probably) to a few folk.
The fragility of a wage packet has never really affected me in the sense that we (Mrs ws) try and make the most of our money. I came across many folk last night, those out for a laugh (a bit like ourselves) those who considered themselves “in the know” and the latter bunch, those who really really were looking for a lucky break. My god, it was so utterly heartbreaking watching a mid 20s lad saying “I can’t believe the cards tonight” “I’ve gotta win this hand” etc etc.
I played at the same table and whilst I was betting my 3 quid a hand he was chucking 20 quid a hand in.
Gamble responsibly?
I’m a big advocate (it’s my crux I know) of you can’t help those who can’t help themselves, but after an actual sit down and chat with folk I don’t know if I ever want to go back in there and fuel the beating of already broken people.

Rambling musings of a hungover man but it just leaves me a bit cold this morning.

Lad I worked with would blow £300 in a lunch hour. He was convinced you had to chance losing big to win big.

Trouble is he lost big way more often than he won big.

Another lad I knew was horribly addicted to the slot machines. Got into massive debts on them. The machine was always about to pay out big – it never did though.

I have a bit of fun playing the of bit of online poker but luckily have never got addicted to it. Horrible mess to get into.

I enjoy it too as an occasional luxury but I agree, you have to treat it as entertainment. Galling to watch the oriental guys wallop down hundreds in one round of roulette.

There’s only one winner at a casino. As for online casinos, I can’t understand how anyone cannot see how it is fixed, especially if you are playing the house. They will only allow you to win enough to keep you interested or addicted.

I like the very odd flutter on sport, rugby in fact, and that is only if I meet up with mates to watch it in the pub. We generally do a couple of quid on 1st try scorer for each match. So that might be £5 on a few Saturday’s per season. International fixtures, cup finals, etc.

Online casinos are a total con. I was playing black jack for free for a laugh and I was winning lots ..

Played with real cash.. Lost about 5 hands in the trot immediately and walked away.

Casino is good fun on occasion, although I only play black jack. Been about 5 times.. Only once have I not left significantly richer than I went in… Well.. 100 quid or so!

wrightyson – Member
I played at the same table and whilst I was betting my 3 quid a hand he was chucking 20 quid a hand in.
Gamble responsibly?

The current trend of making “gambling” cool will be a massive problem to some in future as it is a highly addictive “game/sport/whatever”. In the far east we love gambling (card playing) to pass time and it’s a traditional during the new year. But some people just love it so much they got serious addition to it. Due to gambling one of my friend (another one in serious debts) in the far eat lost his inheritance (house, farm land and cash) to pay off the loan sharks because he borrowed from them to gamble. 😯

Another lad I knew was horribly addicted to the slot machines. Got into massive debts on them. The machine was always about to pay out big – it never did though.

And the worst thing to me of stories like this is the machines have a sticker on them that actually tells you how much in percentage they pay out 🙁

There’s only one winner at a casino. As for online casinos, I can’t understand how anyone cannot see how it is fixed, especially if you are playing the house. They will only allow you to win enough to keep you interested or addicted.

It’s not “fixed” it’s just the same as pub machines. There is a ROI percentage on the games online and machines in pubs. It tells you right next to where you put the money in on most machines. 70% payout or similar, It’s telling you that for every £1 you can expect a 70% return or 70p.

I’ve told that to friends playing these, they still willfully ignore basic mathematics and think they can “beat” them.

Jackpot slots are a bit different because of the massive payout, but hitting that is winning the lottery unlikely.

Whilst it’s not my scene I do ‘get’ the appeal of going to Vegas or a proper Casino to play at being Charlie big potatoes, if you can afford it then fair play.

What I have trouble comprehending is the appeal of sitting in a grimy betting shop pumping cash into a slot machine or even sitting at home in your pants pissing money up the wall.

What a total waste.

The CEO of Bet365 was paid 217 million last year.

This can’t go on, surely.

They’re not for me, I enjoy playing cards with mates but the casino sucks all the fun out of it, it’s ultra fast, clinical and joyless in my view.

I have enjoyed a day out at the races and at the dogs.

It was exactly that a day out with friends, a meal and a few drinks and only took as much money as I could afford to lose.

Casinos and betting shops hold no appeal to me as I am a pessimist so expect to lose. Most gamblers are the opposite and either believe they are lucky or have worked out a system often contrary to evidence.

I’d occasionally, as in once a year, go to the races with my dad and take a fiver (this was back in the late 1970s) as spending for the day. Once that was gone, that was it. Since about the age of twenty or so I can’t remember placing a single bet, not even works/office sweepstake on the Grand National.

No doubt that 70% figure has been worked out as the minimum needed to keep the punter’s interest, a “win” every so often makes them forget all the losses.

The CEO of Bet365 was paid 217 million last year.

This can’t go on, surely.

I think it will.

In 2012, Coates was appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) for services to the community and business. [9]

the son of a friend ran up huge debts gambling. my friend ended up selling his house to pay them off and keep the very unpleasant people away. wrecked his son’s marriage as well.

but money talks

It’s amazing the peer pressure people try and put on you as well.

I’ve been on a number of corporate race days and I’d usually take £20 or something – chuck a couple of quid in the rank outsider for shits and giggles – that kind of thing. Made it a bit of fun.

I was almost sneered at by my colleagues who were happy to wax anywhere between £500-1000 but they were ‘men’ you see.

Just didn’t get the attitude toward me for merely being sensible.

It’s just another tax on the stupid and desperate.

My friend used to work in a bookies, every punter was a liar, to her, their families and ultimately to themselves. Anything other than an office sweepstake is a mug’s game.

It’s not “fixed” it’s just the same as pub machines. There is a ROI percentage on the games online and machines in pubs

So, err… it’s fixed then?

This can’t go on, surely.

Seeing as it’s worth 14 billion (and rising) to the exchequer it very much will go on.
It’s not gambling it’s ‘gaming’, just another tax on the stupid.

We go for ‘lads’ weekends on the lash in Torquay a few times a year, my mate is a member of the casino & he can sign in guests for 24hrs – I’ve been in numerous times (free food & drink 😉 ) but I’ve not once gambled anything there, its very plush & full of well dressed couples, rich widows & Japanese businessmen early on but go back later at night & it’s tragic sight of desperation.

So, err… it’s fixed then?

No, it’s not. I’m not sure what to say, I’d advise you not to play them.

I’m still several hundred quid up on the bookies, but then the last time I laid a bet was in 2008, when it turned out the “inside” knowledge I had on the GB performance at the Olympics did genuinely put me ahead. I even found an arb on Ben Ainsley which netted me £50 or so (I didn’t quite have the balls to bet the house on it, I think I had to “risk” £500 to make that back).

Casinos are a different matter – a “leisure pursuit” you pay for, unless you’re good enough to count cards at blackjack and not get caught doing so.

Mate of mine used to be terrible with the fruit machines in the pub. Would spend £50 to win the £40 jackpot then lose the £40. Got to the point I told him I wasn’t going for a drink anymore as I was bored of sitting on my own while he played the machines. He’s much better now though.

Never been a gambler, never seen the point. Known many though and non of them are rich including those that ‘had people at the stables’. Every casino I have been in has been a desperate place full of sad looking people.

unless you’re good enough to count cards at blackjack and not get caught doing so.

I have a interest in the history of computing and there are some good stories of people being able to play the casinos and doing well.
However the lesson I took is if you aint at one of the top universities doing a phd in a maths related subject (or all the professors reckon you will be able to) then you are likely to be fooling yourself.
The casinos took a while to catch on but that was 30 years plus back and the casinos learnt their lesson and anyone trying to repeat the exercise got shown the door sharpish.
Now outside of organised well trained gangs I think if you are in the same casino for any length of time and you aint banned then the foolproof system is only fooling one person.

Mate of mine plays a little blackjack. He works on the basis that the house wins on average against the players at the table – so what he does is play against themi. Couple of times I’ve seen him play he’s come out in front but not by tons.

There is also the fact that he’s still got a decent sized mortgage that makes me question his overall success rate! One time in vegas he was up by 300 bucks after about 8 hours play. His job at home means he earns about 300 quid a day…

carbonfibreismadebyaliens – Member

So, err… it’s fixed then?

No, it’s not. I’m not sure what to say, I’d advise you not to play them.[/quote]

Yes they are. Most of the folk dumb enough to play them do so in the hope of winning big, but with a 70% payout they are not a pure game of chance and “fixed” in the house’s favour.

Don’t worry, I won’t be playing them as I understand how statistics and probability work (and I’m not a mug…).

It’s an unfair competition really. There was an R4 program where they were talking about the work they put in to making the slots feel you were about to win, everything from the colours and sorts of graphics to the slope of the glass in front. Nothing that you would think makes a difference to you personally but they have bulk stats on their side

But you can’t ban it. Ban it and apart from being accused of being a nanny state it will go underground where there is no regulation at all 🙁

Advertising should be banned though. Stop it being cool.

I like playing Roulette in the casino but I have an addictive personality so I don’t go very often to them and when I do, I take in £20 only, spend that and any winnings are a bonus.

Seeing some other people happily throw what would be a weeks wage to me on a colour and not flinch when they lose makes you think where the money comes from.

Mate of mine plays a little blackjack. He works on the basis that the house wins on average against the players at the table – so what he does is play against themi.

This doesn’t make sense. In a casino you play against the dealer. If the dealer busts, everyone left in wins.

The casinos took a while to catch on but that was 30 years plus back

Most Vegas casinos now use a constant shuffle which defeats counting. Counting cards relies on knowing the balance of high cards vs low cards left in the shoe and betting big when it’s in favour of the players. Lots of 10s and Aces left in the shoe benefit the player, but it’s marginal – the swing is in the range of a 1% casino advantage to a 1% player advantage hence the need to be betting thousands per hand to make money, and playing for a decent amount of time too.

My friend taught himself card counting on his train commute using an app – you just need to be fast enough to keep up with the deal. When we played, the dealers knew he was doing it as he’d increase his bet for a positive count, but quite frankly an increase from $10 to $20 didn’t have them worried.

Perfect basic strategy on old rules (dealer hitting soft 17, blackjack 3:2, doubles after splits etc) minimises the house advantage to 0.5%ish. Our Vegas approach was always to play basic strategy, minimum bets at a table with a fun dealer and players, and drink beer as fast as we could. Paying just the $1 tip per drink vs $5 at a bar was the real advantage of blackjack.

Stop it being cool.

It isn’t.

Years ago I worked away a bit, bloke I worked with was addicted to pub fruit machines, spent a fortune, it ended in a divorce. I never understood why he didn’t just buy a machine and build a bar at home.

Ages back a friend’s brother was banned from many of the local pubs as one too many nights the machines that he was “watching” would be hit by some lucky bystander, and a punch-up would ensue. When he could be undisturbed he’d keep an eye on the rollers, and literally leap over chairs to get to it when he saw a particular result, he’d win nearly all the time, as he’d worked out the subtle signs the machine was going to spill. Gambling and alcohol are not happy bedfellows

Online gambling is a hidden epidemic in his country – I count sites aimed at bored housewives (e.g. foxy bingo etc) as the most cynical.
The games aren’t “bingo” they are complex multi-line slots like you get in the bookies.

I enjoy a game of poker (in person rather than online) so have been to the casino a few times in my life. I generally agree with the sentiments above. They can be horrible places.

When I was a teenager at the fair, some older mates came up behind me and said oh this thing is going to pay out – and then proceeded to sink another £5 of my money and I won £50. I never bothered to go any further and find out how they knew, but maybe things were different with machines then anyway.

I think the solution to this is education (like most social ills) kids need to be shown the connection between probabilities and gambling, and how the advertising is set up to to screw you over. Its a PSHE issue much like mortgages, credit, newspapers etc.

They can be horrible places.

Agree on that, went to a conference in a Vegas Casino, placed smelled of piss as the true addicts don’t leave the machines for anything 🙁

It’s just another tax on the stupid and desperate.

a tax on people with an addictive personality and/or desperate (not necessarily stupid)

It’s just another tax on the stupid and desperate.

This is harsh, it’s not necessarily stupidity, it’s more ignorance and emotional issues. Some of us are lucky to have been gifted or given the ability to avoid it.
I think the gambling industry is morally suspect, preying on the less fortunate and unwary.

a tax on people with an addictive personality

Most Professional opinion that I’ve seen suggests that there is no such thing

Most Professional opinion that I’ve seen suggests that there is no such thing

Whether that is true or not does not mean that gambling victims do not deserve help, protection, and sympathy.

Agreed * and whist we can all see why its “stupid” to gamble addiction does not respect intelligence so lets have a little empathy as its just “luck” its not us and hep the people

* Gambling is an intermittent reinforcement schedule and anyone who experiences such contingencies will do the behaviour more often as the reward is unpredictable- yours the behaviourist