I'm toying with the idea of making JuniorP a cabin/mid sleeper type bed.
Nothing too fancy - something along the lines of soft pine 'corner posts' with sheet wood to make the 'walls' of the bed.
Essentially, it'll be a 'lidless box' type structure, but with a few fancy trims...
My question is, for the sides of the bed/box, what is the best sheet wood to use? Multilayer ply comes to mind, but I'd like to have a nice smooth finish to the sides, for painting. Is this realistic.
I'm not too keen on using MDF, though it can have a smooth finish.
Any suggestions would be appreciated..
DrP
You can fill and sand ply for a nice finish but it'll take a lot more effort. MDF is the easy option for a good finish.
This is a rough sketch up of the plan....
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I'm heading towards ply, TBH..
Any further suggestion on the legs/corner posts?
DrP
Planed 2x2 should be fine for a child's bed. Get some bracing in at low level, too.
Use sheets of pine to match the corner posts?
You can get it in Travis Perkins (may have to order) or B&Q. Comes in lengths to about 2.5m and various widths up to 650mm
Ply can be a bit soft, might dent easily if bashed with toys etc.
MDF might be a bit harder.
You can get it in Travis Perkins (may have to order) or B&Q. Comes in lengths to about 2.5m and various widths up to 650mm
I think you're talking about Premboard? Have used this before on a few DIY projects and whilst it gives a nice 'wooden' look (think cheaper Ikea shelving) it'll be pretty pricey in the sheet sizes and quantities you'll need. Painted MDF would prob be the better option, unless you specifically want to leave it as bare wood?
I'm a huge fan of Hardwood faced Ply - 18mm sheets are very robust, about £35 for a 8' by 4' sheet.
Looks like this:
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8384/8668052053_8474e9dccf.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8668052053/ ]Finished doors[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
only issue with mdf is that the dust isn't very good for you and the sawn edges are very difficulto to get smooth for painting - they always remain slight rough.
Look at pine furniture board, maybe?
[url= http://www.allyourdoors.co.uk/categories/Furniture-Boards/Square-Edged-Pine-Furniture-Boards/18mm-Thick-Square-Edged-Pine-Boards/2950mm-Long-Boards/ ]http://www.allyourdoors.co.uk/categories/Furniture-Boards/Square-Edged-Pine-Furniture-Boards/18mm-Thick-Square-Edged-Pine-Boards/2950mm-Long-Boards/[/url]
My experience if you're looking at it just financially is that buying ready made furniture is cheaper than buying the materials to make the same thing yourself, before you look at time and effort etc. The actual exercise of making it is obviously personal choice as to whethert you enjoy it.
I have a panel/plunge saw, a router and various other wood working tools if you need to borrow any DrP.
Cheers Luke
Premboard. That's it. Not used it for years myself so no idea it was pricey.
Personally I'd go for a good quality Birch ply and give it a clear finish.
Agree about the dust. Try and set the hoover up to suck it up as you are cutting. Much easier if you have an extra pair of hands, and much better than wearing a mask and letting it go everywhere. As for finishing the edges, use a couple of coats of sanding sealer. First coat 50/50 sealer and white spirit, let it dry, quick sand, second coat of full strength, then sand again.only issue with mdf is that the dust isn't very good for you and the sawn edges are very difficult to to get smooth for painting - they always remain slight rough.
only issue with mdf is that the dust isn't very good for you
MDF is the MMR of the carpentry world. There's not really any credible concerns with using it. Using it is fine, dust of any kind is something you want to control. The amount you can create making one kids bed is of little concern.
Birch ply is the most attractive stuff to use, mainly because the ply thickness are uniform (same thickness and same wood throughout) hardwood faced ply has an ok face but I think the cut edges are ugly, the inner plys are a different wood to the face and different thickness and often gappy. If find the edges of hardwood ply a bit too keen to splinter.
Structural spruce ply is nice to use, it has the edge quality of birch, with uniform plys. It's rougher and knottier than the others but if you choose a good sheet (some have one better quality face) can be quite attractive - it almost looks like a characature of wood.
Use mdf though. Use extraction with a circular saw, with a jigsaw slow the blade right down and it comes off as little chips rather than fine dust. Slow speeds with a router work well for the same reason
I built some shelves out of ordinary ply recently and like yourself was concerned about getting a smooth and attractive edge. I eventually settled on iron-on real wood veneer edging. It's cheap, easy to apply, doesn't shift once it's on and looks good (I used mahogany and it polished up nicely and also coped with a bit of light sanding to smooth the edges together.). I reckon this combined with some good quality ply might be your cheapest option. I'm not a fan of MDF, always strikes me as a bit Changing Rooms.
Find it here:
http://www.woodveneeruk.co.uk/products.php?cat=22mm%20Wood%20Veneer
I've just finished my 2nd kids bed and my 3rd bed (our bed is also homemmade).
The kids beds, whilst not as high a structure as yours are essentially kid size beds at normal ikea kid bed heights but with panels all around with a ntch cut out for entry.
For the panels I used cheap pine shelving boards. 300mm deep, approx 18mm thick 2m lengths about 8 euros per 'shelf'. Whilst we're in France I know the likes of B and Q do something similar. Think you can get them upto 600mm wide Even though they're made of many short sections glued and compressed together they are smooth.
The first bed I stained in blue and shows the wood effect nicely, the 2nd one I've just finished has just a linseed oil finish and looks great. Can send you some photos if you want. I can't be bothered with hosting them on flickr etc.
Birch ply would be the nicest finish possibly for larger widths. But pricey.
Wwaswas - I'll likely be taking you up on the borrowing of tools....
I'll email you in a bit!
I'll have a look at the local wood people to lay hands on the stuff.
RE buying a bed - initially looked at this, but they are about £300 for the 'cheap ones', and I'm never really impressed with the build quality!
DrP
Redwood (pine) for the structural pieces then MDF for the sheets.
And then glue on wood to any edges of the MDF that could be damaged, and router to thicknes/rounding.
MDF will paint well, very smooth finish.
I'd use moisture resistant (MR) MDF.
Still produces lots of dust but finishes (particularly on the edges) better than normal MDF.
Birch ply is nice, although pricey. The edges look nice too if incorporated into the design.
Ikea do a very good value captains bed if you want an easy option.
The bed I've just finished 'making' started off as Ikea's cheapest kiddy bed. I've been thinking for sometime that IKEA stuff can be nicely modified and for a fraction of the price of buying wood to build from scratch. This was my 1st attempt as doing exactly that
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I used birch ply. Ring around to get best prices. Wasn't too expensive in the end.
I painted using cheap sample pots from B&Q - they were charging £2.xx for a tin of any colour mixed.
Left the edges unpainted
Then we finished with matt osmo - which is just amazing stuff. There's not a scratch on it in 2 years.
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Ok...now I'm looking like an amateur.
That looks great AlexSimon.
Cheers mugsys_m8!
The curved slats came from ikea - super cheap (£12 each I think) and made the whole thing feel more 'proper'.
The birch ply is a winner for now.....
Birch ply for sides, Pine corners, and blood sweat and tears...
DrP
That looks excellent Alex S 8)
cbrsydI'd use moisture resistant (MR) MDF.
Still produces lots of dust but finishes (particularly on the edges) better than normal MDF.
Plus 1
Birch ply is the business; it even smells nice when you machine it.
I have used MDF for painted furniture literally hundreds of times; really, it couldn't be easier to finish: I rough cut the panels, then trim them to size with a blade I keep just for this kind of thing (on table saw). Round the edges with router, pass 120 grit sander paper along cut edge to remove saw marks.
Paint with 2-3 coats Acrylic eggshell straight onto the bare material. (De-nib cut edges once first coat has dried; use 180 grit with silicon lube in it).
I have nothing useful to add - but I'm looking forward to doing this in the future, armed with a fairly large CNC machine and a big pile of plywood... 🙂
That's cheating Alex 😉
🙂
I had to cut them down - does that make it better 🙂
Alex - what thickness is your birch ply?
I've got quotes for 2440x1220 sheets:
15mm = £52.10
18mm = £60.20
Probably looking at 3 sheets for the whole build (just running up plans).
Wondered what your opinion on the thickness was?
Cheers
DrP
The brown and dark green bits you can see are 15mm
(with 6mm for the light green decorative bits)
Plenty thick enough for anything other than a table-top.
The battens against the wall and supporting the slats are scant (3x2).
BTW - those prices are pretty good if they include VAT and are definitely Birch Ply and not just Birch-faced ply.
I paid a bit more and got it all from somewhere with a wall saw who could cut into pieces for me (I bought 8 sheets and made 36 tessellating storage boxes to fill my living room alcoves).
Pocket hole joints ftw!
This is how the ply arrived.
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Then a weekend of constant pocket hole jointing created all these:
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(rubbish photo sorry - apologies for the ugly baxi back boiler that we're stuck with!)
The plan was to put doors on about a third of the boxes, but haven' got around to it yet.
This is that OSMO product that is absolutely fantastic for covering over paint samples/matchpots/etc:
http://www.osmouk.com/previewpage.cfm?bookid=book001&chapter=57&page=116
I think 15mm will suffice then, as the weight of the 'bed platform' will be taken as a vertical load by the ply sheet, and I'll get some bracing running at two levels (bed level, and floor level).
Not sure if that quote is VAT TBH - I got a second quote from another local company, and i'd be looking at about £70 per 15mm sheet, which make me wonder if the first quote (T-P) is then + VAT....
Cheers for the input (It was your bed that inspired me first!)
DrP
Cheers for the input (It was your bed that inspired me first!)
Ace 🙂
Right - can anyone spot major death-inducing faults in this rough design? Not to perfect scale, but it's the general plan...
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I've not planned the storage shelves, but the cutout idea for the front remains..
The 'steps' will be left open, so he can peer out and receive bread/water when I lock him in it...
And I've not drawn the bracing that will run around the bottom either.
Obviously that will mean the 'door' becomes raised a bit...
DrP
Only thing I can see is the steps might be a bit painfully narrow in 15mm.
But then children can cope with just about anything if it's fun.
One step ahead there...
Was going to mount some softwood pine behind each 'step' section (you know, the lower half), and "route" it down to the ply cut-out/profile...
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DrP
🙂
How are you fixing the panels to the corner posts?
I'd put some triangulation across the corners where the slat bars are to make it more robust.
The sprung slats from ikea are great, I used them when I built my bed. I used the central box section spine from ikea too (as you can buy it separately) and then some steel angle down the sides to sit the slats on and made the rest of the frame from solid wood joined with the same 1/2 turn fasteners you get in flat pack bought from a local place (when I lived in Chorley) that makes kitchens.
And I've not drawn the bracing that will run around the bottom either.
Are you expecting to move it around much? Just screw it to the floor, that'll brace it.
Alex, that bed looks so good!
jamj1974 - the bed or the boxes? Either way cheers!
How are you fixing the panels to the corner posts?
Dado rail in the post (router), glue, and will buy/make some screw in fixings.
DrP
AlexSimon I've got two spaces eitherside of my chimney breast that are crying out for something- shelves would just look naff but I love what you have. Idea- Is there anywhere that I can source pre-existing boxes that I can stack/tack/concealed bracket every so often irregularly up like that?
DrP - MemberDado rail in the post (router), glue, and will buy/make some screw in fixings.
DrP
Nice one (although a dado rail is a different beast to a dado joint). I've only just got a router (small Trend thing) - will try it out on the finishing touches to the shed.
hora - MemberAlexSimon I've got two spaces eitherside of my chimney breast that are crying out for something- shelves would just look naff but I love what you have. Idea- Is there anywhere that I can source pre-existing boxes that I can stack/tack/concealed bracket every so often irregularly up like that?
Yes, I looked at a few. The randomness is the tricky part.
This was the best system I found:
http://www.cubit-shop.com/en#1
although a dado rail is a different beast to a dado joint
Indeed it is...was on auto pilot typing!!
Regardless, I can hardly come from a position of authority as I've not used a router for YEARS... and never on a project like this either!
Regardless, the wood is all bought and in the boot of the Skoda as we speak!
At just over 190cm for the longer bits, I've had to really scoot the front seats forward - cue me driving round, nose to windscreen, ike a NASCAR driver!!
And... Despite Wenban-smith in Worthing quoting circa £72 per sheet (1220*2440 in 15mm), the Horsham branch could do them for £54 per sheet, AND cut them to size...
Noice!
DrP
EDIT - I was also trying to pervey the fixing I wanted to hold it in shape too - The chaps there have 'table leg fixings' in stock, which will also be great for pulling the structure into shape:
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[img] http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqhUTwffYfkfGD36TZsatdYCeJ3Pp6LQ4u9-KQvN5CU0Sp5XgC [/img]
Very good price that
Good luck!
So, a few hours of sunshine today allowed me to make a routing template for the 'steps', and to make a jig and start work on the corner posts. I'm just waiting for a mate to drop round a table saw so I can cut the legs to the correct size.
Very happy with the dado groove though.
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http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7443/8724064114_caa273eae5_z.jp g"/> [/img]
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And a quick mock up to get a rough visualization of the size - always handy to have an ambulanceman nearby too...!
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This weekend's plans will also mostly involve being covered in sawdust...
DrP
Pretty much 12 solid hours getting sawdust in my eyes today!! Satisfying though!
Will update pics in a bit....
DrP
Conservatory workshop (the wife was away!)
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Where the leg fixings will, erm, fix...
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It's just a big coffin for now..
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This piece took all the hard work and planning
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All I've left to do is finish the storage bins, and think about paint/varnish/finish...
DrP
looking ace DrP.
sis-in-law is pitching for something similar from me for my niece, so will follow this thread for more ideas and tips.
I like the idea of the table leg fixings. Although personally Id usually just throw glue and more wood at it myself, but then would need to take the chainsaw to it to disassemble 🙂
PS Am I the only person who absolutely hates using a router?! Hateful machines with the power to wreck your work with one sneeze.
Cheers - can mail across the basic plans I made if you fancy?
The thing with the router is, once you find a straight line (wood baton guide) or make a decent template, you can't go wrong when using the 'Bearing guide bit' - as long as the guide piece is clamped tight!
The router was used on every piece here - grooves, edges etc...
DrP
Coming together very nicely indeed! My own DIY skills are solid but basic, yours and AlexSimons are pretty superb!
gaps are much too big in the bottom bit of the panel - that will never work as a prison
Hate it when people come along and disprove the cliche that "yeah, he may be a clever bloke, but he's got no practical skills".
Some people are sickening. 😉
Righto...All done!!
The little'un is all tucked up, but "as he's in a big boy bed, the dummy fairy has come". Alas, no dummy, so he's not really settling!
All in all, I'm pretty chuffed with it - not bad for my first proper attempt at woodworking. Plus, having designed the bed/made the plans all from scratch, it's got a nice personal touch to it I'm sure my lad will appreciate at some point!
I've been crawling around in the 'den', though for me it's a bit tight!
I think I might install some small LED lights under there 🙂
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And one of the prisoners....!
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It's still unvarnished; we're still deciding on the final finish, and if to have colour or not....
Cheers for the help all who gave it 🙂
DrP
Very impressive! You should be really proud of that.
What wood are the side panels?
Awesome work DrP, quick turnaround too
15mm birch ply (circa £55 per sheet, 3 sheets in all) for the side panels and storage bins.
15mm far east (cheaper at £32 ish) ply for the mattress platform (which need vent holes drilling, just remembered!)
Redwood pine corner posts.. about 16 quids worth..
Cheers for the positive comments 🙂
DrP
I slept in DrP's bed! 😀
(The one he built.)
It held up to my huge bulk without so much as a creak.
An impressive thing of marvelous marvelousnous.