I’ve got a land Rover Defender 90, and I’m weighing up the pros and cons of different camping systems. I don’t have much time off these days, although I’m hoping to make a little more time for the odd night or two away. I’m in the North of Scotland, and probably wouldn’t be able to go too far afield, but it would be handy to have somewhere to stay before/after cycling events, or when going down to Glasgow for shopping.

It would only be myself using it.

I’m used to camping, and have a mountain tent and gear which can weather severe storms. I’d be camping all year round, and probably more often in winter than summer.

Top of the list has been one of those hard shell roof top tents such as an Autohome/Aggiolina or a James Baroud. However, they have disadvantages – I’m not sure how well they’d stand up to storms, there’s nowhere to change out of wet gear, there’s no toilet, the Autohome door flaps look like they’d leak, and scooting up and down ladders might not always be convenient. Also, they’re quite heavy (handling changes) and might whistle making the Landy even noisier.

The second option is to get window covers for the Landy and bodge a stretcher type of bed into it.

I also like the look of little caravans such as an Eriba or Freedom. However, they’re probably more than I can afford. The benefits of a caravan include more space, a toilet (in some) and a little more civilisation. However, I used to tow an old caravan years ago, and used to find it a bit of a pain at times. I’m wondering, does towing get any easier with experience? I know it does, but do you get to the stage where you can manoeuvre out of any situation, such as driving down to a dead end, or going into a car park where there aren’t any parking bays etc? I used to have hassles of getting stuck in muddy fields (the Landy should solve that one) or the trailer sockets cutting out. It’s fine towing on the open road, but I found I was always aware of lugging a big lump around, and there’s always the stress in ending up in a sticky situation! I know you have to think ahead, and practicing and training can help, but is there always going to be an element of stress?

I’m not that keen on camp sites either, so if possible I’d prefer to park up somewhere out of the way, but that’s not always feasible. Perhaps the roof top tent would be better for that type of camping.

Has anyone get camping/caravanning experiences to share?

Can I be the first to suggest you need a campervan?

I also like the look of little caravans such as an Eriba or Freedom. However, they’re probably more than I can afford.

How much can you afford?

Re caravan towing, here are the issues I find in no particular order:

1) Stopping at supermarkets etc is a pain because for some incredible reason security guards seem to think you are travellers about to set up camp rather than holidaymakers. FFS. However with a mini caravan you would probably be ok. It’s not like a family of four with bikes on the roof and bloody buckets and spades everywhere in the van look like travellers, is it? But apparently to some people we do.

2) I do worry a bit about meeting things on country lanes, but generally it’s not a problem. I am pretty comfortable reversing the van, but I don’t think I’ve ever had to do that. I try to play it smart though – given a choice of sites I’ll take the one that looks like it has better access, and I don’t plan to do long distances on lanes.

3) Most annoying thing probably is sometimes having to take it easy on country roads not because it’s hilly or windy but when the road surface is bad. Our van is old and rickety and I worry about hastening its demise on rough roads.

4) Once, in France I need to turn around, so I turned into what looked like a large site entrance suitable for HGVs. A bit of a gamble, but I thought it being Sunday I’d be ok. However there was a massive gate just out of sight until it was too late 🙂 Un-hitched the van and did a 3 point turn in the end 🙂

5) Had to stop at a Halfords recently and got Google maps out to scope out the retail park. Based on this info we drove down the back entrance to the employee car park, pulled over (tons of room) and then used the employee car park to turn around.

All this mind is with a Passat and an 18′ van. You’d be far better off with one of those 10′ mini jobs. Just think about how many works vans are driving around the place with trailers on.

I mean – I have the choice of tent or caravan, and I take the van most places. It’s not that bad. The worst thing I think is the worry about rough roads but once we can upgrade from our creaky old thing with no spring left in its axle I reckon it’ll be much better!

I’m not that keen on camp sites either, so if possible I’d prefer to park up somewhere out of the way

I reckon with a mini job you’d be alright. The legal situation is variable, depends on local byelaws and most laybys or car parks either say nothing or prohibit overnight camping in anything, as far as I can tell. There were caravans camping on the side of the loch on Mull as well as campervans.

We also hate typical caravan sites so we go to Caravan Club Certifiied Locations which are fields + taps and cost £8 a night generally. Does require a membership; however there are plenty of similar field+tap types that aren’t Club sites. They can be hard to find though.

I’d be tempted to buy a motorhome water tank, fit it under the van and plumb it in for on-board water.

I’d prefer to park up somewhere out of the way, but that’s not always feasible

even less so with a caravan than a motorhome/campervan I think, not only is access more tricky but I think you’re far more likely to be challenged putting the steadies down on a caravan than parking up quietly in a campervan/putting a roof tent up on a landie.

Also, look at speed restrictions – they are significant and can add significantly to a long journey.

If you’re planning on being out in any significant wind bear in mind tow things;

1) towing is a nightmare with a high sided towed vehicle and lighter caravans will be worse in this respect
2) even with the steadies down a caravan will still rock on it’s suspension in a strong wind – enough to make my wife ‘sea sick’ trying to sleep at night in one we had.

Thanks for all that!

Some of my experiences with the caravan are coming back to me now!

My one was an old, heavy one, and I remember it taking a real battering some nights. A couple of times I ended up sleeping on the floor because it was moving around so much in the wind I was feeling seasick in the bed! I haven’t found anyone to say as much, but I suspect a roof top tent atop a Landy might feel horrendous in a storm…

I thought a smaller/lighter and more modern caravan with aluminium chassis would tow better. I didn’t know much about nose weight when I had mine, and wasn’t able to do much about it anyhow. I had to tow it with various vehicles, all of which had tow balls at varying heights, and although I dragged it around, it certainly wasn’t optimally balanced.

I used to prefer staying at CL sites. They were generally a lot cheaper than £8 then. I used to pay a Lake District farmer 50p a night! I think even a main site was around £5 or £8 a night. Someone told me that some sites are now charging £35 a night, which makes a Travel Lodge more appealing!

all this thread screams is go do some training its a couple hundred quid and should live the anxiety of driving with a trailer- loaded correctly a caravan should not be driving a 110.

im doing my trailer training and my test in november at a place in livingston.

all this thread screams is go do some training

in a side wind the ‘van will swing about behind the tow vehicle even if the tow vehicle itself is stable. It’ll be worse at certain road speeds/wind speed combos.

It’s why they close exposed bridges etc to high sided vehicles.

Also, look at speed restrictions – they are significant and can add significantly to a long journey.

It feels slower than it is. It added about an hour and a half to our trip from Scotland. So all day was still all day.

Not had any issues in wind even in our crap old van.

Also, being passed by lorries on the motorway – it was a problem at first in our older van, then I learned that with a rear toilet it needs emptying before you set off otherwise the weight of poo slopping around makes it unstable. Current van is fine, you just get a slight tug on the wheel if a bus passes at 70mph but it’s really nothing.

Re noseweight – very important for the ride. 5-7% is good.

£35 a night – I recently checked a full Club site for three nights it was going to cost us nearly £150 for the four of us! And you got packed in like sardines on tarmac too!

the weight of poo slopping around makes it unstable

blimey, what are you eating?

http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/25/smuggler-walking-awkwardly-caught-with-a-kilo-of-gold-stuffed-up-his-backside-6955181/

We have a caravan on a seasonal pitch but don’t tow it, it doesn’t rock about at all in the wind. If a caravan rocks in the wind then its not level.

My wifes sister have an eriba and the tow it with a land rover 90, they love it and don’t have any towing issues. Eribas aren’t the cheap option, they’re a lot of money for not a lot of van. Really nice though.

+1 for doing a towing course.

TBH sounds like the perfect candidate for a campervan. Or even just a van with a basic fit out in the back for ultimate stealth. You’ll struggle for stealth camping with a caravan and they’re far more hassle travelling. Stopovers on long journeys are more restricted – simply finding somewhere to park a long car/caravan combo can be challenging, no pulling in for a cheeky McDs quite as easily.

Already decided that when we repeat past trips around the north coast and islands that we’ll leave the caravan at home and take the van and tent instead.

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Job done

I’m currently going off the idea of towing a caravan for my planned usage. So, I think it’s back to a roof tent!

The Alu-Cab Icarus roof (above) only fits the 110 as far as I know, but I’m considering their similar roof tent. However, there are a few other makes, including the AutoHome and James Baroud ones where the roof goes straight up so that all sides are the same height.

in a side wind the ‘van will swing about behind the tow vehicle even if the tow vehicle itself is stable. It’ll be worse at certain road speeds/wind speed combos.

van can swing – but you really shouldnt feel it in a 110 unless its loaded badly – loading it badly causes the pendulum effect to make the sway bad – and can in some cases tip the van. the 110 has enough weight and a long enough wheelbase that wind sway shouldnt really be driving the car from the rear.

then of course there is knowing what to do when the sway starts…..

Bed in the back of a ninety? Good luck with that! 😯

van can swing

Some informative videos (these tend to stop folk grumbling when you fuss over weight distribution in a trailer):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

We’ve got a freedom and it’s a doddle to tow, though of course it is a tad slower due to caravan towing speed limits.

There’s a Freedom Caravan Friends facebook geoup. Might be worth a look on there as some folk are selling older models for decent prices so at least lets you see options for the lightweight caravan.

Whilst on sites we’ve seen the roof tents on top of land rovers and they do look awesome. I’d still rather have our Freedom when it’s Baltic or wazzing it down outside though. Very easy to move about, and light enough when unhitched to move by hand. We’ve got the prima sunseeker and I imagine the microlite is even easier to move around

So, I think it’s back to a roof tent!

Stupid, stupid, stupid things in the UK

*post duplici

We have a very old caravan its an Abi Adventurer. Bit bigger than a freedom but not much. Doddle to tow.

I’ve tried most types of Land Rover based camping, so can probably have some input here.

I used to sleep in the back of a 3 door disco at DH races – that was ok, I put a gazebo up at the back to give a dry area for hanging about when it’s wet. With the front drivers seat forward I could get enough room to lie out flat (I’m 6’3). It was pretty cosy as discos are well insulated. It was a decent setup for races, where the weather is unlikely to be wild and there’ll be plenty space on a flat field.

Nowadays I don’t do DH races, I do hill running. This can mean staying places without much room where the weather might be shitty and the ground uneven. The gazebo doesn’t work so well for this type of thing, and I wouldn’t like to go off for a day and leave it set up so it would be a bit of a faff.

I’ve done a wooden platform at bulkhead height with an inflatable mattress on top. In the 90 it had to go right forward to the dash from the tailgate, so there was no room to do anything other than sleep. Fine for me if I just needed to crash after a run, useless if the mrs and I were both away.

I’ve also done the same thing in both a 109 and a 110, this was a bit better as the front seats were free to sit on (tailgate to bulkhead behind seats gives enough length). Choice was to either be in bed or sat in a front seat if the weather was minging or the midges were out though.

I’ve done a lot of nights on my own in the uk with that setup, and a couple of weeks away at a time with the mrs abroad. Abroad is easier though, as you can use the space outside more of the time (assuming somewhere warm).

I’ve also done a Maggiolina rooftent. This freed up the interior for sitting about, but ultimately the choices were still lying in bed in the rooftent or sitting in a seat in a car if weather or midges were unfavourable.

I’ve settled on a 127 ambulance converted to a basic camper. For use all year round in Scotland it’s by far the best setup I’ve had. Room to sit away in relative comfort from rain/midges on the inside, and a heater for when it’s subzero in the middle of winter. It’s a dedicated camper though – it’d be a massive compromise using one day to day.

With a 90, I reckon you should just get a caravan. Camping in even a lwb is a pain, I wouldn’t entertain it again unless I had no choice. Rooftents don’t really add much to the party for uk use. With a caravan you’ll have a normal 90 for normal use, and a nice comfy place to kip and whatnot when you tow the van. That’s a good compromise.

Trailer test is a doddle, I did training and test in a day for a couple of hundred quid. Plus then you can tow other types of trailer, which can be useful when buying more Land Rovers 😀

Obviously an actual van like wot trail_rat has would be better, but Land Rovers > vans, so what can you do…

We’ve a howling moon roof tent on my 110 and it’s great. Fine in stormy conditions, good ventilation if needed and waterproof for UK conditions.
Had some great nights kip for me and the Mrs in it.

We have the add on room that attaches underneath to give a rear room that we use if setting base for a few days.

That’s very helpful!

I was thinking about a platform from the back door to the dash, but obviously there wouldn’t be much headroom. Rather than a board I was thinking about a tensioned camp bed type of platform, but as you say, it’s not ideal, and if I wanted privacy I’d need some window blinds. There also wouldn’t be much room for carrying a bike or additional camping gear.

Comments about roof tents are helpful. As mentioned above, I can imagine a list of downsides, but then there are advantages too. However, they’re not cheap enough to be an impulse buy, and I’d also need roof bars. I’m worried that most people use them in Africa and Australia – I’ve never been to those countries, so I’m not sure how the tents are going to cope with an Orkney squall. There have been one or two occasions when I’ve felt the Landy was in danger of being blown away.

What I used to enjoy most about caravanning was waking up to a new and great view while being in a familiar environment and with my “belongings” to hand. There’s also room to stand up, and somewhere to change out of wet clothes, not to mention a toilet, washing facilities, and a fridge and oven etc. Although I’m not too stressed about towing, and will obviously look to build up my skills and confidence, I think caravans might work best where the journey involves heading to a site, unhitching the caravan and then freeing the tow vehicle for do other stuff before heading back to the caravan for sleeping. I’m just not sure it would work as well if it was ‘permanently’ hitched to the Landy for the duration of a trip, and I had to tow it everywhere I wanted to go. I think that’s where I’m wondering if more towing experience would help.

I think caravans might work best where the journey involves heading to a site, unhitching the caravan and then freeing the tow vehicle for do other stuff before heading back to the caravan for sleeping.

(Don’t forget the comfort factor though)

This entirely. It’s all a personal choice/budget.

Our caravan has what we need & plenty of space. (Automatic trailer control, motormover, shower, wet heating etc)

Horses for courses.

Take a look here http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic15011.html

With your intended use I’d be looking for a van if it were me, (unless you do actually need the off road ability…)
Insulate & board it out. Ideally something with a tailgate for when it’s wet. Fashion a mozzy screen to hang from it in summer. Even add a drive-away awning for a bit of extra room.
I took all the seats out of my Galaxy for a cheeky overnight in the Lakes, I was surprised how comfy it was. The tailgate is a godsend when it’s wet.
We’ve a Caravan though, & for me camping just doesn’t come close. It’s ok in good weather but the Caravan is just so much easier. We set it up in Spring & it’s ready to roll again in an hour or so. Off to the Forest of Dean for half term week, & whilst you probably could do it in a tent; it’s a different ball game when you’ve pretty much all your home comforts.
Swings & roundabouts though, & some hate it. Oddly, when we go away with tent camping friends, our popularity soars when the weather turns crap. 😉

Oddly, when we go away with tent camping friends, our popularity soars when the weather turns crap.

HaHa, this! My mate has a motorhome (that you can’t swing a cat in) & we have the pikey van/awning/Nissan XTrail. If we all want to go to the local pub for a drink/meal/pop to the shop, guess which stays on site?

Tiger that landy is towing a Tab trailer, my uncle and aunty have one in the US and have been from East to West coast and from Florida to Canada in it. They are pretty cool bits of kit.

Keep your eye on the auction in Aberdeen for a luggage trailer, perfect size for a wee self build tow-a-bed. Or even a wee horse box, though they tend to be expensive, as horsey types have more money than sense.

I wouldn’t go down the camper or caravan route purely for your needs – I’m hoping to make a little more time for the odd night or two away

Sounds like mateys got you whipped so he can have a beer essel 😉

When the weather’s bad, especially after a long cold wet race or similar, caravans are amazing. Heating on, warm shower, brew on, cook real food, soft comfy bed. I’d hate to be lying on top of a car tbh.

Our first time out in ours was at a Big Bike Bash – we’d taken ages getting ready and had a long trip arriving at midnight in the rain, so to simply put legs down, get inside out of the rain, brew up and get cosy in minutes was magic.

+ 1 for seats and for heating and water and the cooker + brew

dont you be bringing your cats round here to swing…..

We got a caravan a year or so ago, thinking we’d use it to get away for weekends and stuff with the bikes and OH does motorbike trackdays so it’d be somewhere nice to hang around and be rather than sit (and sleep) in the Doblo. It turned out to be a huge pain in the arse* and we couldn’t wait to get shot of it after we’d used it once.

We’ve got a converted Ducato camper/day van for general pottering about and MTB stuff and a motorcycle trailer for trackdays now. The trailer lives in the garage and we just hitch it up as and when we need it. The van has some comforts, like a perma-bed and stove, but it’s loads less hassle than a **** cara-****-van.

*to the point we drove 200-odd miles home from Anglesey after a trackday rather than stay over that night and put that **** bed up again…

*to the point we drove 200-odd miles home from Anglesey after a trackday rather than stay over that night and put that **** bed up again…

Wow, really? Takes us about 3 mins, and we put on a fitted sheet and duvet and everything!

Of course, with a 4 berth van you could leave a bed up permanently and sit in the other dinette, which is what we’d do if we were on our own.

It turned out to be a huge pain in the arse* and we couldn’t wait to get shot of it after we’d used it once.

In what way?

We have a fixed bed but even putting the bed out at the front takes about 10 seconds, pull out slats, put seat cushions down.

Yeah, would take us 20 seconds if we used sleeping bags.

i bought a van because i wanted a home from home on the road – i dont use sleeping bags in the house , not sure why i would in the van.

for us we have a perminant bed at the rear over the garage and then the L shaped seating turns into a second double – its just a case of cushions off , fold out the slats , lift the base pull out the sheets and quilt. Put on the cushions make up the bed.

bit of a hassle but not nearly as much as driving 200 miles 😀

not sure why i would in the van.

To save time and effort. I’m not saying you should, I’m just saying some people do. We don’t, for the same reason as you.

To save time and effort. I’m not saying you should, I’m just saying some people do. We don’t, for the same reason as you.

We don’t either but if we have friends staying then they can bring sleeping bags to sleep on the beds at the front. If our son graces us with his presence we give him the fixed bed and we make up the front bed properly, but again doesn’t take long.

In what way?

Old-ish (late 80s early 90s maybe) 2 berth, sofas facing each other needed the cushions moving to pull the bed slats out then replacing to form the bed. Add in the fact that my other half’s a leaver not a putter and it’s just a massive **** on when you’ve had two shit nights already in the blowing hoolie off the coast of Anglesey.

edit- having typed that I realise it’s probably not entirely the caravan’s fault but I’m massively intolerant of fannying about and life’s too short to be arsing about with shit that doesn’t need arsing about with. Buy a van and stick a perma-bed in it. Job done 😀

bit of a hassle but not nearly as much as driving 200 miles

It was late and there were no police about <cough> possibly home in a little over two hours <cough> 😆