Would ideally like a little more poke from our family car. 2.2 turbo diesel with ~ 150 bhp.

The same engine is used in higher spec model which has ~ 180 bhp. Other models in the range use the same drivetrain in ~ 240 bhp petrol models.

Superchips suggest their remap will make a bit more than 180 bhp and a decent amount more torque lower in the rev range plus better fuel economy – assume using the torque benefits rather than revs.

So….anyone on here used a Superchips remap? Did it do as it said in the tin?

Thanks.

Snake oil.

benz – Member

The same engine is used in higher spec model which has ~ 180 bhp. Other models in the range use the same drivetrain in ~ 240 bhp petrol models.

Same turbo, injectors, head, cooling system, exhaust, clutch, brakes, wheels, tyres etc ? [/devilsadvocate]. 🙂

We did this topic recently and got some feedback from a guy who made maps. The TL;DR was it might give you better figures, but the hidden cost was emissions went through the roof.

Many folks have had aucceasful remaps, my mates included. As above nit frying the sriverrain / clutch / dmf is important – need to know what parts are fitted – its not just about the engine block

As fir emissions there are many examples of detuned engines in certain models eg bmw 116d vs 118d so extra power isn’t just making emissions worse

TL;DR was it might give you better figures, but the hidden cost was emissions went through the roof.

This basicly.

You wont have all the same ancillaries as the bigger engines. If the injectors are undersized then you get poor combustion and produce particulates.

Low down torque is basicly a function of boost pressure (you can only produce power if there is air there), more pressure means more NOx.

Emissions controll devices wont be big enough either. For example a higher capacity SCR would allow the engine to produce more NOx (and power) and meet emissions limits.

They’re not cheating you by deliberately hobbling the engine.

maxtorque – Member
I love it how people spout on about how “manufacturers” map their cars. Well here’s the crack, i’ve spent the last 30 years doing exactly that! There’s a good chance that quite a lot of people on this thread actually drive a car with ‘my’ map in it! So, please, don’t tell me the old “manufacturers leave loads of headroom” or “they map for the worst fuels” rubbish. Back in 1993, yes, maybe, in the last 10 years er,nope.
Lets discuss the 60mph thing. the original van will do 60mph in top gear, so the remapped one can’t downspeed its engine any further. (unless you are also putting the drive ratio up too, which you ain’t with a map)

The engine speed at 60mph before the map, is EXACTLY the same as the engine speed at 60mph after the map. And the power requirement is also exactly the same (unless you’ve somehow reduced the vans CdA as well). So if it’s now doing 60mph with “less throttle pedal” then as i said, the pedal map has just been changed…

And lets talk about making torque at low rpm. Being a diesel, the engine is attempting to run lean (excess air ) at all times. The OEMs have thing like smoke limits and NOx limits, in fact, both of those have their own limiting maps, and these maps are the first to get chopped by the aftermarket tuners.

Without a turbo change, you can’t get more air in at any given speed, so the only way to make more torque is to add more fuel.

About 5 years ago i was asked (as i run a company that consults on this sort of thing) to run a mapped car over the official drive cycle by a well known tuner (who shall remain nameless). 23 sec into the 22min drive cycle i pulled the plug and stopped the the test, because the mapped car was already 10x over the Particulate Limit…..

So, there are NO FREE LUNCHES in engine tuning these days, and as no aftermarket tuner i’ve ever met or heard of runs there cars over the official cycles, then i’m willing to bet my reputation that just about any mapped diesel car will be something like 10 to 100x more polluting than a std one.

From reading maxtorque’s post again it strikes me that manufacturers are going to some pretty elaborate lengths to ensure diesels look clean.

I wonder what the comparative increases in emissions are for a chipped petrol.

As above, the only way to get more power is to burn more fuel. That requires more air, which requires more boost. Without hardware changes, you are limited to running it rich or crippling emissions controls.

Why do you need more power? 30 years ago, 150 hp would have been considered pretty decent. Personally, I would like a more powerful car, but that’s because I enjoy driving like a dick. I’m a bit of a cheapskate though, so when I think about it rationally, driving like a dick isn’t really worth the cost.

Why do you need more power? 30 years ago, 150 hp would have been considered pretty decent

Cars are heavier now, so we don’t hurt ourselves when crashing them whilst glued to our phones on the way to the shops which are only 2mins down the road.

OP, good luck with this one. Guaranteed to get everyone all of a froth as it does each time the subject comes up.

And a 30 year ago standard is a bit irrelevant as this is now and that was then.

I’ve had a couple of remaps over the years and the perceived performance differences were marked. Whether this is ‘worth’ the apparent downsides is up to the OP. Perhaps if he does 10x fewer miles than someone with a stock injun goes some way to mitigate his heinous crime/particulate footprint?

I got a superchips plug in chip for my XR2i years ago. You should have seen it go with the extra 4-5 bhp it promised.

Had my mondeo mk3 remapped, rolling road, took it from 130 to 168bhp. More mpg, was awesome. Lasted 60k more until it dumped it’s coolant and cooked it self at 80mph.

Would defo remap again. Just not an xr2i

Plugins aren’t a remap are they? Just tricking the engine by knobbling it’s sensors.

The downside of a remap is going to be higher emissions I think.

It’s a family car FFS, think of your children!

Can you just press the accelerator a bit further down? And drive it a bit harder, I doubt you’re driving to the current engine’s limits.

I’ve had a superchips remap done by Falkland performance glenrothes on my VW Caddy 1.6tdi, before the remap it had 102bhp/250NM and after it had 148bhp and 325NM, my mpg dropped from an average of 60mpg to approx 56mpg, i still easily get more than 600miles from a tank of fuel so i’m happy to take a hit of 4mpg and acceleration is much better as i rarely have to drop a gear to overtake. Superchips used to be the official tuning partner to VW racing UK so i guess they know what they are doing.

Depending on make of car there are other makes of remap available.

Companies like ….

Revo
Apr
Shark performance
Oscarli.

I’m going to get my VRS stage 1 remapped at some point. 220bhp – 300bhp

I had a VW remapped with Shark. It was awesome.

Went direct to Volvo for my V60 to keep the warranty and get the gearbox adjusted to match.

Small but important point – don’t forget to tell your insurers that you’ve increased the power. Do forget, then have an accident and they are likely to refuse cover, leaving you with a big bill, potentially life-changing for you if you happen to injure somebody and have to work the rest of your life to support them.

Police in the West Midlands are having a blitz on boy racers and impounding cars which don’t have cover for modifications and this means anything that’s not standard. The have taken over 600 cars off the road and street racing is much less.

It’s a family car FFS, think of your children!

He’s got a point, my child loves going in “Daddy’s noisy fast car”.

Only answer is to sell the diesel and get something less sensible, ideally with 6 or more cylinders or a huge turbo, or both.

Seems easier, and more reliable, to buy the sportier version of current car if you really need that extra oomph.

I have a Fiesta, so am obviously a speed demon, but if I wanted it to go faster, I’d just sell it and get a Red/Black Edition, Zetec S or an ST.

Interesting reading about remaps and emissions. I was thinking about getting my current car done (had a Passat pd130 done with excellent results).
How do the manufacturer approved remaps (Volvo – Polestar, Ford -Mountune) still maintain the required emissions?

How do the manufacturer approved remaps (Volvo – Polestar, Ford -Mountune) still maintain the required emissions?

Are they only petrol remaps? Pretty sure Mountune is not so sure about Polestar.

I think the emission restrictions are only on new designed cars so they can get approval. After you buy it it only needs to pass the MOT, and there aren’t any NOx restrictions on diesels in the MOT.

As above, the only way to get more power is to burn more fuel. That requires more air, which requires more boost. Without hardware changes, you are limited to running it rich or crippling emissions controls.

Why do you need more power? 30 years ago, 150 hp would have been considered pretty decent. Personally, I would like a more powerful car, but that’s because I enjoy driving like a dick. I’m a bit of a cheapskate though, so when I think about it rationally, driving like a dick isn’t really worth the cost.

you don’t need to use all the power all the time …
My remap on the rolling road went from about 240 to 280 bhp but that was before I bought the car…
Never had a MOT issue on emissions and the extra 40 bhp feels like does make a difference when you want to drive like a dick…

When I’m not driving like a dick (which is mostly) I’m getting real world 50mpg on motorways in a 280 bhp car… with a nice balanced V6 diesel… most of the time the engine is in super-economy at 75 mph.. but it can just burn a lot very quickly when you slam your foot down.

you don’t need to use all the power all the time …
My remap on the rolling road went from about 240 to 280 bhp but that was before I bought the car…
Never had a MOT issue on emissions and the extra 40 bhp feels like does make a difference when you want to drive like a dick…

When I’m not driving like a dick (which is mostly) I’m getting real world 50mpg on motorways in a 280 bhp car… with a nice balanced V6 diesel… most of the time the engine is in super-economy at 75 mph.. but it can just burn a lot very quickly when you slam your foot down.

Sounds like you have the same engine as me (l have a 09 A6 Allroad 3.0 TDI). Do you know who mapped yours?

Sounds like you have the same engine as me (l have a 09 A6 Allroad 3.0 TDI). Do you know who mapped yours?

Actually mines an 06 BMW (before Audi and Mercedes caught on to performance diesels)
I could look it up (if you like) as its in the paperwork somewhere….

Cars are heavier now, so we don’t hurt ourselves when crashing them whilst glued to our phones on the way to the shops which are only 2mins down the road.
[/quote]

My car’s a big, heavy Mondeo. It only has 123bhp (had when new, I suspect a few have escaped) which is plenty. The most power I’ve ever had in a car I’ve owned, though I’ve driven hire cars with a lot more horses. Sure it might be nice to have more power to overtake a few times a year, but it’s rarely lack of power which prevents me going for an overtake. The rest of the time there is plenty enough power to make progress, I doubt having more would make the slightest difference to journey times.

Presumably the main reason to have more power is to drive like a loon?

That’s fine then – who cares how much pollution you’re making as long as you pass the MOT?

Exakerly… only baby robins die don’t Day.

Nice attempt at trolling with the last line there, but the peak BHP figure doesn’t really tell you how fast it is in real day to day driving.

That’s fine then – who cares how much pollution you’re making as long as you pass the MOT

Fraction of car owners who buy a chip = vanishingly small.

Bigger fish to fry are available to choose from when saving the rainforest.

Fraction of car owners who buy a chip = vanishingly small.

That’s not really the point though, is it?

It wasn’t – what is the huge benefit of more power (or more torque etc. if that’s what you’re getting) in real day to day driving?

[split hairs]That’ll be a straight six then[/split hairs].

Err, use your imagination! Joining busy NSL A-roads with short/uphill/no slip roads etc.

What is the huge benefit of more power (…) in real day to day driving?

Huge benefit – maybe not. I’ve had a pickup/4×4 mapped to improve how it tows and a camper van mapped as it lacked the grunt to get up hills on the motorway without dropping down a gear. Both greatly improved the car in day to day use.

My daily driver has been mapped and gave an extra 60bhp (with some supporting mods), is there a huge benefit? No, not really. Is it more enjoyable to drive? Yes, worth every penny.

Using my imagination, I should think the peak BHP is important in that situation. Can’t even remember the last time that was an issue though (and I regularly make a trip where I’m joining a NSL DC with very short slip roads).

I can understand it might make a difference in something underpowered (which could include towing) – but that’s not what people on here seem to be talking about.

How does more 60bhp make your car more enjoyable to drive?

No peak BHP is not relevant at all because I’m not going to sit the car at 5.5K RPM then drop the clutch and buzz it round to the redline every time I need to slot into a gap. It scares my nan in the passenger seat.

What I’ m getting at is that the spread of torque over the rev range is far more relevant. Thus your comment that 123BHP is fine even in a large car is not meaningful. You could have two completely different engines, both with 123BHP that drive totally differently.

For example I have 82BHP in a small car and it’s not good enough. Equally I had the pre-facelift version of the same car, which also had peak power of ~80BHP but was absolutely fine to drive. They changed something to improve the CO2 which meant it feels very very flat at low-mid RPM i.e. the range you normally drive around in.

The rest of the time there is plenty enough power to make progress, I doubt having more would make the slightest difference to journey times.

Presumably the main reason to have more power is to drive like a loon?

More powerful cars are just nicer to drive a lot of the time.

I’ve got a 1.4 Fiesta with 94bhp and 2.0 Leon with almost three times that power.

The little Fiesta is a fun little car but you have to absolutely rag it a lot of the time. On a short motorway slip road – unless you want to be one of the people that joins the motorway at 45mph – you have to be flat to the boards in 2nd and 3rd to get some decent acceleration. Changing lanes on the motorway takes a bit of forward planning too

In the more powerful car its just easier. You put you foot down a little bit and it gets up to speed no fuss. Its got plenty in reserve. You can match speed changing lanes on the motorway really easily. Its just easier and nicer to drive in almost all situations