Had this happen to me a couple of days ago (there was no impact but my wife and I don’t agree on fault).

I was at a t-junction waiting to turn right. As I pulled up to the junction someone coming from my right (on the road I was turning in to) turned left and stopped (blocking the carriageway they were on) so they could turn around in the junction to go back the way they were coming from. As I was at the junction they had nowhere to go. Then two more cars pulled up behind this car (and couldn’t go anywhere as she was half in / half out of the junction). In order to try to help ‘free up’ the situation I started to pull out around the first car stuck behind the on in the junction. As I did this, the car at the back pulled out around the other two cars onto the opposite carriageway and we nearly collided.

So – who is to blame?

So – who is to blame?

The cyclist. Or the immigrant. Won’t happen after Brexit.

Whatever your wife thinks.

Easier that way.

Both would be at some sort of fault, that would have been made worse if one of you was making your manoeuvre at a speed where you couldn’t stop. The driver who didn’t just carry in down the road to turn around is also at fault for being an idiot.
Ianal

All of you for not cycling, and instead driving around in insulated tin boxes where you can’t talk to each other and instead just pollute the environment and kill all the children TO DEATH!

Did you have winter or summer tyres on your Audi? If the other car was a BMW you don’t need to give way to them so 100% their fault..

Me: 11 yr old Mazda 3
Car in junction: Audi A3
Car behind: Ford Focus
Car at back: Ford Fiesta

Easy then. The Audi A3.

Easy – nothing happened so no one is to blame.

is there no chance that this can be laid at Thatcher’s door ?

otherwise, brexit

I would say 50/50 (you and car at back), but not helped by someone pulling in to do a Uturn (who when you crash will bugger off and leave you two to argue it out)

I’d say you. He has right of way over you, regardless of whether he’s overtaking an obstacle or not. The only instance in which he would share the blame is if you were already pulled out before he started the overtaking manoeuvre.

Hopefully that’s what your missus said, otherwise it is incorrect. 🙂

The only instance in which he would share the blame is if you were already pulled out before he started the overtaking manoeuvre.

We both started at the same time – however he accelerated quickly (I suppose frustrated at someone holding him up) whereas I moved off slowly so we almost met near the front of the Ford Focus and only my stopping avoided the accident as he was already carrying too much speed to stop.

I would still say 50/50 next time wait where you are and the Audi can drive down the road and do a 3 point turn where it is safe.

Yes, but what does your wife say about the matter? I’m guessing she and I concur, and you know what that means.

The trump card, however reasonable you are being, is that he had right of way even in those circumstances. You’re pulling onto the carriageway. He’s already there. Doesn’t make his a good decision, or vice versa.

Audi driver is a dick, naturally. 🙂

As others have said, it would probably go 50/50 or at worst 70/30 in his favour, but the court of STW demands greater precision.

Him. If all traffic was moving and he moved into oncoming traffic to overtake it would be the same.

Tricky one, this. You shouldn’t have pulled out if the road wasn’t clear, the other driver shouldn’t have been on the wrong side of the road if it wasn’t clear either. I’d be surprised if an insurer argued anything other than 50:50.

+1 martinhutch
This thread wouldn’t exist if your wife said the other driver was at fault 🙂

Personally I would say it is your wife’s fault as attack is always the best form of defence in these sort of situations.
Ultimately the Audi is causing it by trying to pull a U-turn & obstructing other traffic.

I would say the OP, as they were joining the Carriageway.

Fiesta at the back was a bit naughty, but effectively carrying on along the road.

As the OP made the decision to pull out, I would assume that Mrs Doh agrees with me.

Thatcher fiesta shouldn’t overtake unless he knows it’s safe.

Brexit you shouldn’t pull out unless you know it’s safe (SWIDT?)

Hitler A3 shouldn’t be obstructing the road

Correct solution is to all wait for the driver of the German premiumwagen to realise that it’s not all about them ( 😆 ) and drive further down the road before trying their manouvre

Rule 167

DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
where the road narrows
when approaching a school crossing patrol
between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down
at a level crossing
when a road user is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled
stay behind if you are following a cyclist approaching a roundabout or junction, and you intend to turn left
when a tram is standing at a kerbside tram stop and there is no clearly marked passing lane for other traffic.

Correct solution is to all wait for the driver of the German premiumwagen to realise that it’s not all about them

I don’t think he’s got that many weeks to spare.

Yes my wife thought it would have been 100% my fault. My argument (which seems to be backed up here generally) would be that it would go down as a 50/50 as we were both contributing to the issue. I also said that the Audi could be also held liable for doing what they did but would probably have driven off without a care in the world.

IF they hit you insurance would class it as your fault more than likely as ignoring most of the stuff :
They are going along a road and have right of way and you pulled out of a junction

Just to clarify OP…. had you completely exited the junction and were you entirely on your side of the road when the near miss occurred?

They are going along a road and have right of way and you pulled out of a junction

But they would have been on the wrong side of the road as they were overtaking a car stopped at the junction – they couldn’t have pulled back in fully onto the correct side of the road with the space available.

According to the Traffic Officer currently sat opposite me stuffing a bacon sarnie in his giob – the Fiesta is at fault for breaking Rule 167 above.
He could also be guilty of the offense of Dangerous Driving whereby his actions caused another road user to alter his course and/or speed, etc.

Assuming:
– you were turning right, onto correct side of road.
– the overtaker was now on wrong side of road.

Then the overtaker/impatient one is at fault.

This happens with monotonous regularity at the junction up to my house. Last week I’m a junction turning right, car swings into junction to do uturn but can’t because I’m there. I can’t move because my exit is blocked by another car turning right into the junction. Uturner winds down window to explain why I’m in the wrong.

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/driver-who-fatally-struck-motorcyclist-13741715

This is on my route home from work and is regularly congested at going home time. Motorcyclist on wrong side of road hit by car turning right out of car park. I must admit it made me think a lot about the situation.

^ I notice the driver was cleared of the charge of death by careless.

OP…… In my opinion you are at fault. You are allowing another motorist to force you into making a manoeuvre that you know will put you into a dangerous position.

Only analogy I can give is from some recent first-aid training. The first response should always be to check for “danger.” (Not to rush in and to crack on with bandages and CPR etc.) ie… if it is too dangerous for you to be there… then you cant help anyone.)

Similarly, your first responsibility is to yourself and the occupants of your car (and NOT to be the nice guy and free up a bit of space for some twunt that thinks he owns the road.)

Moving your car in the way you did was the “nice thing to do” but it put your car and your wife at risk. It might have been counterintuitive (especially as most of us are nice people who want to do the nice thing, but the safest thing to do would have been to stay put. You might have received a bit of abuse from “angry man” but **** like that dont count, your wife and your other occupants do.

I’m not suggesting that we should all run about with an aggressive “it’s my road, i know what im doing, you lot are useless” attitude but I reckon there is a lot to be said for driving “assertively” and not being forced into making moves that put our loved ones at risk.

Sorry. Hope that isnt condescending. but you did ask!

(Just read your post again….. not sure now if your wife was in the car with you or not.)

But they would have been on the wrong side of the road as they were overtaking a car stopped at the junction – they couldn’t have pulled back in fully onto the correct side of the road with the space available.

But the other guy wont say that will he? “I was going down the road and someone pulled out in front of me”

Insurance company wont know any different based on the damage to the car etc it would be perfectly plausible unless you have a (independent) witness.

Insurance is far less thorough that if the police were looking into it because someone was hurt etc they just settle for whatever seems the most likely scenario to get it sorted ASAP saving money

But the other guy wont say that will he? “I was going down the road and someone pulled out in front of me”

Although there would be at least one independent witness (the person in the Focus) that would say he was on the wrong side of the road overtaking stationary vehicles at a junction.

I don’t think it was your fault.

You saw a load of stationary traffic and proceeded to solve the problem with caution. He on the other hand overtook too fast past an unfolding incident when he couldn’t see everything he needed to (i.e. you). Impatient angry drivers slashing safety margins by executing manoeuvres too fast really piss me off.

However I agree that insurance companies would probably go 50/50 unless you had dashcam footage.

U-turner also in the wrong. He might WANT to do a u-turn, but he has no right to block the carriageway because he wants to do one there and then. Bloody stupid IMO. Just go down the road and find a side-street FFS where you can turn around out of everyone’s way.

Although there would be at least one independent witness (the person in the Focus) that would say he was on the wrong side of the road overtaking stationary vehicles at a junction.

You’d be surprised I worked with insurance claims for a few years and 95% of the time everyone else just buggers off it their car isn’t hit so there aren’t any witnesses, or if you do get their number/address most can’t be bothered to respond.

Point taken. But it the independent witness/es don’t show i’d still have the truth on my side.

How’s the truth going to help you argue with your wife?

Another good point. However please rest assured that things haven’t escalated and I’m not sleeping in the spare room. 🙂