Talking to a chap yesterday,he said due to the volcanic ash,and planes being cancelled he had decided to go back into work on monday,despite being booked of work on annual leave.
He said he rang the boss on Friday afternoon to say he would be back in work on monday and wanted to rebook his anualleave, the boss said no, you cant youre on holiday all of next week dont come in.

As im self employed,have no idea is this legal or acceptable.

bit short notice – would your mate be expecting to get holidays at such short notice too ?

boss may have made arrangements for the week hes taken off ….

I dont know legally but i wouldnt expect it if i was in the guys shoes ….

You dont have a right to time off when you want it so I'd expect he can't cancel when he wants without agreement.

Unless boss has good reasons perhaps he should move…

With the boss here

as above, if the boss has made arrangements, changes to staffing, workflow, meetings etc to accommodate the planned leave then its its to be expected that he might be reluctant to make a sudden change. Whether his flexibility (or lack of it) is reasonable or not is dependent on the circumstances of the business and the changes he may have put in place. If it was no skin off his nose, youd expect a reasonable man to allow your mate back again, if it buggered up 2 weeks of productivity plans then maybe be not.

I'd be more relaxed – I had the week before Easter booked off, managed a day and a half. Last week I arranged Friday afternoon off at 12.30.

Stupid boss, irrelevent of what changes he'd made – just made a (class) enemy of the guy and everyone he knows will be told.

Yes, while Managers have the right to refuse etc, only time I ever did it was at Christmas/school holidays when those with kids got a priority.

Managers have the right to refuse etc, only time I ever did it was at Christmas/school holidays when those with kids got a priority.

Why?

Like Stoner says, a reasonable guy would let him come back – especially as it's out of his control that he can't go away. It's not like he's changed his mind because the weather's changed.

I suppose it depends entirely on the job he's doing…and how much he would muck things up by coming back.

would your mate be expecting to get holidays at such short notice too ?

yes – I usually just don't go in if I want a holiday 🙂 They figure it out for themselves…

'cos thats usually the only time they can take holiday, and often people with kids have problems with holiday cover.

And I have 3 kids 😆

Lots of business struggle to accommodate everyone holiday plans and still maintain a minimum staff. Letting folk cancel willy-nilly means they'll be looking to re-book those holidays later in the year – adding to holiday congestion. Mibbe the manager knows this and can't fit in the revised holiday plans?

Is the OPs "chap" so lacking in imagination that he can't still make use of a weeks holidays next week?

He just might get a call tomorrow from the boss begging him to come in if there's lots of folk stuck elsewhere 😆

And I have 3 kids

Self-inflicted injury.

what johnners said.

You know the rules about school holidays when you choose to have kids. No sympathy

anyway, at our place, if I was on a week's holiday, not going anywhere, and decided not to bother with the holiday and return to work, my boss would be grateful.

OK I could rearrange the holiday for later in the year, but so what? It's only April FFS. Not like you've got a department of 10 all wanting the same week off w/c 23/12/2010, is it? Or is it?

Boss is being unreasonable, IMO

As both a boss who sanctions holiday & someone who has to clear my holiday with those above I really can't see what the problem is?

If the OP's mate has had to cancel due to an "act of god" then I'm sure he can fit another one in sometime.
As long as his department stick to the max number off at any one time then that's fine. (don't take the piss and I will be flexible is my motto)

I think some people in a position of power just need to keep their egos in check.

Yes, while Managers have the right to refuse etc, only time I ever did it was at Christmas/school holidays when those with kids got a priority.

We challenged this policy where I used to work, succesfully – just got fed up of selfish parents block booking Christmas in the first week in Feb, 'because we've got kids'.

He should quit and become a teacher they get loads of holidays for naff all work.

I'm with the boss. The guy booked his holiday, there you go. Presumably the boss had made arrangements based on the holiday.

Rusty Spanner is right. Those with kids do not get any priority on selecting holidays. It would be wrong to do so. However, its fairly self leveling as those WITHOUT kids try to avoid the rip off period of july/august when everywhere is full of screaming brats.

All depends on the job. If it's the sort of job where the boss has arranged cover and they'd then be overstaffed I can understand it. If it's the sort of job where they're not needing to be covered then as a one off I'd be happy to let the guy cancel.

Yes, while Managers have the right to refuse etc, only time I ever did it was at Christmas/school holidays when those with kids got a priority.

I'd have opened a huge can of whoopass on you if you'd done that to me. first come, first served. you can't discriminate against people without children.

b r – I'm afraid if you tried to make me work EVERY Christmas so that those with kids got EVERY Christmas off I'd be coming for you with a rusty meat cleaver! You have just done what you criticised the boss in the original post for (made an enemy of an employee), but without a legal leg to stand on (illegal according to HR manager wife). Your personal circumstances are clouding your judgement – very poor management in my opinion. You can keep your August though, who wants August off unless you have to?

Boss should engage common sense, but they might have already done so – scant details make it impossible to tell. If work & staffing has been arranged so they are not needed then sorry, that's just hard luck. In any other circumstance, I would imagine an employer/ line manager to be more understanding.

I'd have opened a huge can of whoopass on you if you'd done that to me. first come, first served. you can't discriminate against people without children.

I used to manage ~50 guys & there was some complaints about Christmas etc.
we used to operate a '1st come, 1st served' & the complaints usually came from those that weren't organised enough to book early – which were often the single guys – some people are very organised with it & I'd receive their full year's holiday requests on Jan 1st

I don't have kids but as I live apart from family I need some time off at Xmas to see them

First come, first served based entirely on when applications are made also has its downfalls too. I think the fairest policy is a set date by which you can apply for leave before the year starts (whenever that is in your organisation). The line manager can then juggle the requests with what has been granted in year previously so coveted periods are evenly distributed over the years. If you have not applied for all your leave in that "window" and want to be flexible you get what is left, but it is open and fair.

I'd say no as well (I'm in agreement with the boss) – he booked the time off so arrangements were made to cover his work – things have been accommodated to make it work. Calling in the Friday before his holiday is to start wouldn't work with me – so he isn't getting to go abroad, he can recover his costs from his travel insurance (assuming he has that) and stay in this country and enjoy the time he isn't at work…It needs to work for all, so if he allows it for him, then the rest need to be able to do that…I'd say no and tell him to enjoy his local holiday and time off work.

I'm a 'recent' parent and it gets right up my nose when parents trot out that rubbish about holidays…if you want them, get them booked up first, don't leave it until the last moment and then pull out the parenting card.

His boss is an ass. Lad didnt change it on a whim but unforseen circumstances. If it was just a change of mind then fine.

I'm against the boss here.

I think the 'OPs boss' is correct in what he's doing, by the book, but in actual fact he's being as tight as a duck's ass. I'd just turn up at work.

I might be in the same position, as we're ment to be going to India in under 2 weeks, and this volcano could easily still be causing problems. I've just had a chat with my boss, but he's a decent chap, so I don't expect any problems

I wonder if the same boss expects above and beyond the call of duty from his staff?

However……there could be other info hidden. This chap could be known to do his work and leave or not really care about the company, or not be a very good employee hence the boss really doesnt want to be flexible back.

Works both ways 😉

If one of my staff was in the same situation then in most cases I'd say yes (especially if, as in this case, it's not their fault the holiday was cancelled). A lot of effort goes into scheduling holiday cover for my team though and such a late cancellation could easily mean that I'd have nothing useful for them to do that week, which would then have an effect of profitability later in the year when they do take the time off. Currently I can accomodate that but I can understand if other businesses might not.

Seems fine, it would just mean they would have to give him holidays some other time and they might not have enough cover then.

Yes, while Managers have the right to refuse etc, only time I ever did it was at Christmas/school holidays when those with kids got a priority.

Ah so your saying discrimination is ok then? That's nice.

I guess it depends on if the boss is refusing to change it because of genuine staffing problems, or because he's just a bit of a bell end.

used to manage ~50 guys & there was some complaints about Christmas etc.
we used to operate a '1st come, 1st served' & the complaints usually came from those that weren't organised enough to book early – which were often the single guys – some people are very organised with it & I'd receive their full year's holiday requests on Jan 1st

Thanks Uplink, this is exactly what use to happen.

I for one use to submit my main holiday requests in the first week of Jan, and so did others that were organised. I had no problem at all filling Christmas/New Year cover as I'd a few old singles who covered Christmas (we ran systems 24/7/365) and family guys who covered New Year. Plus a few colonials who wanted to be able to take 4-5 weeks off at a time, so they were flexible at other times – because I was.

The boss is in the right. Usualy contracts say something like "hollidays must be taken at a time mutualy convenient for the employee and business' needs"

In some industries (teaching, and some parts of the Army for example) and some employers, you get set holliday dates so they can manage who's on/off and when. If he's booked a week off and cant fly, claim off the airline/travel insurance and book a week in Cornwall or elswhere.

I'm guessing it's not easy for the boss to re-arrange things last minute so I'd agree with him.

I hate 'organised' block-bookers of holiday to, OK I understand trying to get your summer holidays sorted early but most people just stay at home over Christmas so not like they have flights etc. to sort. We have a semi-official rule you can't book Christmas holiday until at least June now so those anal enough to book everything first week in January don't always get the whole Christmas period. For my own team I split it so you can either have days before or after Christmas (and only both if there's no conflict), works well enough for us.

depends entirely on the situation i'd say. i work in a large office so would expect to be able to cancel my holiday, and in return i've come in at weekends and late evneings to help the company out.

works both ways.

Once worked in an office where management decided to monitor the times people arrived in the morning and make the relevant deductions for lateness from that months pay.

Needless to say, all the staff then insisted on working their full lunch allocation and leaving on the dot at their appointed hour.

Once the asshat of a senior manager realised that he had lost hours and hours of unpaid overtime the policy was abandoned and an apology issued.
Industrial relations in action. 😀

i think the boss was correct technically, but due to the circumstances I'm sure he could have made an exception. I think he's just de-motivated someone and may backfire when he requires some flexibility.