Firstly, I haven’t sold or posted a bike for years. Also, I only use Paypal for the occasional eBay purchase. I’ve never used it to send or receive a four figure sum.

On Friday I received a payment of £1100. I immediately withdrew it to my current account and it said the process can take around two hours. I thought it might be slow because of the weekend but it’s now midday Monday and I no longer have the Monday in my Paypal account and it hasn’t landed in my bank yet either.

I’ve got the bike all boxed and ready to go. Parcel Force are collecting it tomorrow.

Now, I might just be getting paranoid. But would you let the bike go if the money still isn’t in your actual bank account? Is their anything a buyer can do to take the money back or cancel a payment? Now I’m not a scammer so I know the bike is exactly as described but if the buyer decided otherwise (or pretended to) is there any way I could be left without the bike or the money?

If there is a dispute then PayPal will arbitrate, you shouldn’t be able to withdraw the money unless they have received the goods otherwise you are in a massive position to scam them.

Not only that, the classic is ‘received not as described’. If you’re the seller, the buyer can claim it’s wonky/shonky/winky and you may be lucky to get your money and/or keep your bike.

So yes, if you’ve inadvertently sold to a scammer, PayPal won’t necessarily rescue you.

Not only that, the classic is ‘received not as described’. If you’re the seller, the buyer can claim it’s wonky/shonky/winky and you may be lucky to get your money and/or keep your bike.

So yes, if you’ve inadvertently sold to a scammer, PayPal won’t necessarily rescue you.

Yeah, if you’re really lucky & sell a big £500 item that the customer signs for, has no recorded damage & then 3 days later opens a claim for the whole thing being missing from the box, Paypal then debit your account for the money & refuse to help, despite all the evidence to the contrary as they have signed a form to say otherwise…

Paypal are great.

Oh great.

This is why I was refusing to post it for ages. Couldn’t find anyone local who wanted it.

teasel – Member
I’m gonna start thinking that they have something against me

They do, they were just saying that the other day in the ‘what conspiracies’ meeting… 🙂

I knew it…!

😥

Out of curiosity, did you sell it to somebody from here- if so, I normally get them to stick a post on the ad so I can see their username/history.

Secondly- you’ve advertised th bike for a grand on here- did you get £1100 for it posted? Cos I’d be a bit wary if somebody offered £100 extra if I would post it.

Not a deal breaker, but I’d even think about the possibility of myself/a mate delivering it in person if the £100 would cover it.

Advertised for £1200 on Pinkbike. It’s going to Newcastle. Sold for £1100 so minus fees and parcel force I’ll just clear a grand.

I was going to deliver it for him as an excuse to visit family and he was up for it but didn’t move the money fast enough. I’d feel much better if the money was visible in my account!

If he’s paid via Paypal you have to send it with a trackable, recordable service so you can ‘prove’ he signed for it.

Otherwise you deliver, he claims non receipt, you can’t in any way, shape or form ‘prove’ he has received it.

Either that, refund him & do cash on delivery.

The only way I would trust the process completely before releasing the goods is to transfer the cash out of PayPal and ensure any funding links cannot be raided to reverse the payment. If you’re meeting the buyer any way, why not cash on collection?

I routinely sell and post stuff for £1000+ I just sold a camera to someone in France who paid me £1650 for it for example.

If the money was in your Paypal account and you transfered it to your bank account, then it’s not a massive surprise if it’s not in your current account now. BACS still takes ‘up to’ three days not including weekends. In many instances it will be there in seconds, but it is quite common for it to take longer.

If you transferred it then it’s just in process; you’re not being scammed (though there is still the potential for this to happen).

In a lot of transactions, Paypal can put the money into escrow until the buyer confirms that they’ve received the item and this can be proved. I’ve had this happen a few times and the first time it does it’s both a) worrying (because it looks like a scam) and b) extremely annoying because you realise that you’re being denied your money by Paypal and it looks like nothing more than Paypal creating working capital for themselves at your expense.

But, the upshot is, that whatever you sell that is high value, send it using a fully trackable and signed for service. I used http://www.parcel2go.com to source resonable priced shipping for large or high value items. It’s not worth cutting corners on shipping.

If in doubt…………Pull out!

At the moment you think you don’t have the money but you have the bike, as soon as you post you may have neither.
I sold a road bike on fee bay buyer paid through paypal.
He received bike but then said he hadn’t inspected for a week cause he was away.
Then he said wasn’t as described, and he gets full refund from me!! BUT and this is the proper kick in the teeth, I am supposed to cover the delivery postage and his return postage.
So all of a sudden I am expected to offer a free returns system like im CRC or something!

I told him the I would drive down (400) miles and collect in person so I could check it was still in as delivered condition.
He then posted it back at his cost.
I will never post a bike through pay/pal or ebay again the risk is way too high.
Keep bike and refund.

Is both parcelforce guidelines? I’m pushed to get a frame sized box through their dragon but that’s almost office, not pickup mind.

Plenty of stw’ers in Newcastle if you need his slippers weeing in

Of he’s up for you dropping off bike (even though you didn’t) I’d be less worried about a scam.

I’m gonna start thinking that they have something against me

See, I was only joking when I wrote that. Seems it’s actually true, though **** knows why.

To the winky mod that deleted my post but not Boblo’s – care to explain why? Happy to do so in private email as long as you reveal your forum user name because I’m seriously starting to think you have an issue with me and I’d like it to stop.

If you’re going to be a mod then at least do so with impartiality or explain why I’m on your hit list.

Well the bike went today. I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It got collected and I gave him a tracking number. Then he started asking lots of questions that he really should have asked last week. Like when was the suspension last serviced, does it fit 27.5 wheels etc.. He seems really disappointed that it’s 26 only, which to fair, was blatantly obvious.

He’s making me nervous. The only reason I felt kind of safe sending it to the northeast is that I used to live there and I know enough people that, push come to shove, I can have someone banging on his front door if needs be. I’d much rather that doesn’t happen.

So begins at least 48 hours of stress!

Good luck 🙂

He seems really disappointed

I don’t think this is going to end well 🙁

I don’t think this is going to end well

Nor me sadly. Should’ve refunded the money and sold it elsewhere.

Dispute claim on its way I reckon.

OP will be visiting him soon I reckon

If I ever have to trust someone a long way away I often “happen to mention” that I have family or friends nearby, which I almost invariably don’t. It sounds a bit heavy but I don’t try to intimidate and certainly don’t make it sound that way.

If I’m asked post anything of any value now I insist on bank transfer only. Yes the buyer has to trust me and I’m sure I lose potential customers but it’s just not worth the risk to me.

I hope this ends up alright for you OP.

If I’m asked post anything of any value now I insist on bank transfer only. Yes the buyer has to trust me and I’m sure I lose potential customers but it’s just not worth the risk to me.

I would never send bank transfer to a stranger. This is why I tend to insist on pick up only and cash on collection. Unfortunately this limits your market but you have to weigh up what is best for you.

No reason to think its dodgy…he hasn’t tried to get a mate to collect it, common scam items are small high value items that are easy to sell on without hulking huge boxes around, and he hasn’t tried to send more than needed with a story about forwarding it on.

For what its worth, I’ve never tried to withdraw money from Paypal, once its in Paypal, I’ll send the item and the money will get respent on other stuff direct from Paypal.

They can be a bit draconian, for example holding on to funds if they think the seller is pulling a fast one or the account activity is unusual. If you just received £1100 out of the blue and its unusual for your account, and then you immediately try to withdraw the cash, they may put a hold on the money in case the goods don’t turn up.

P.S Keep a record of the recent emails about it being a 26er etc, if the seller is unhappy with the bike and raises a dispute, its strong evidence he got cold feet before he even received the item.

For anyone thinking drop off/collection is safer, you are losing the proof of delivery! So if the transaction is done via paypal (I’ve asked for this as I don’t want to drive 60 miles only to find the buyer thinks he can start haggling, or not turn up) you need to get the buyer to print and sign a receipt, and ideally a photo of the buyer and item (last couple of times I’ve relied on taking a clip from the dashcam in case they try and claim the goods have not been received)

Good luck OP.

Why would you use PayPal if you were delivering by hand?

For anyone thinking drop off/collection is safer, you are losing the proof of delivery!

yeah…. I think that’s a well known scam by this point. If collection is in person then it MUST be cash. In which case, it’s 100% safe (unless you get mugged on the way to/from/during).

The money is in my account now. It feels a little better now that I can see it and it’s not stuck in limbo somewhere. Now that I know how easy it is for the buyer to claim their money back I won’t be ordering a new bike yet.

If I ever have to trust someone a long way away I often “happen to mention” that I have family or friends nearby,

I don’t think he has any idea I’m from the northeast.

OP will be visiting him soon I reckon

No I won’t be, but I’ve already briefed some old mates on the situation. If anything dodgy happens there will be a black pickup truck full of big, baldy, rednecks knocking on his door within the hour. All nice reasonable lads obviously but if they turned up on your driveway you’d probably just hand over the bike.

But of course, all this could be totally normal and I’ll be planning a new bike in a few days. Just need to chill out.

PayPal offer poor protection to sellers. Default policy is to side with the buyer and reverse the payment on any complaint. Having the money withdrawn doesn’t stop them charging back on your bank account also.

One of a number of reasons I stopped selling on ebay (mostly though reasons of general hassle and time for little reward).

There used to be escrow services you could use which supposedly offer more protection for both sides.

Just a quick update…

I’ve still got the money in my bank. But I’ve just came home and seen the bike up for sale on all the same Facebook pages I put it on!

Now I’m not bothered what he does with it, but before I posted it he was “in love”.

How long do I have to worry about him starting a PayPal dispute? Can he do this if he isn’t even still in possession of the bike? Should I be alarmed?

Better than fair chance of him being on Hamsterley Riders on that Facebook …

Take screenshots, email them to an independent so that they can be dated.

Got all the screenshots of Pinkbike and Facebook messages detailing how much he loved the bike and was desperate for me to post it. He went quiet as soon as the bike left. No acknowledgment or contact whatsoever since it was signed for.

Really surprised to see it up for sale. Paypal is crap for contacting. No easy way to ask them a question or raise any concerns.

Glad it seems to have been ok in the end.

Paypal is crap for contacting

Rubbish, I have phoned them many times and they have always been great. You have tried phoning them?
0800 358 7911

Even PayPal would side with you now he has posted it up for sale…Buy the bike!!!!!

I had 3 lots of $800 fraudulently taken out of my Paypal account the week before Christmas, to cut a long, long story short, if there was an alternative to PayPal I’d be using it….

Are you using 2 factor authentication on your PayPal account? If not, I would definitely turn that option on. It’s the best way of preventing fraudulent use of your account.

Are you a business selling bikes or a consumer selling a bike to another consumer.

If so consumer contract replaced distance selling which undoubtably is irrelevant as PayPal will ride roughshod over any rights you may have had.

Another excuse not to use their crappy expensive service.

FWIW the sooner people start taking legal action against chancers who think they will be protected behind the unique and what may not now be legal terms some offshore feign of a company thinks they can stick you with the better County court Judges are often far more likely ( though not always) to use their common sense and see through deception.

You might find the chancer doesn’t have a pot to piss in but it’s worth it for the small claims cost IMHO.

I had 3 lots of $800 fraudulently taken out of my Paypal account the week before Christmas, to cut a long, long story short, if there was an alternative to PayPal I’d be using it….

Interestingly, I had an unauthorised payment made on my Paypal account over the w/end on some gaming website I’ve never been to (US$46). Have opened a dispute, so will see how that goes.