A bit of idle speculation for a wintery Tuesday.

We always said that when the kids left home we’d get a campervan and go exploring Scotland (and further afield). We’ve not reached that point yet, but we have reached the point where they’d rather go on holiday with their friends and the family car is at the point where we either need to spend some cash to keep it running for a few more years (new clutch etc) or buy something newer. So, I’ve found myself wondering whether we could replace the car with a van now. But it would have to serve as commuter, family car and regular biking vehicle as well as the occasional adventure.

Commuting is around 60 miles a day, mostly on the A96. Originally I thought this would rule a van out straight away. Surely a car is a better choice as a commuter. But then I thought “isn’t this sort of mileage exactly what a commercial vehicle is designed for?”.

I’m no boy racer, but getting stuck behind slow moving traffic on Scottish roads because I don’t have the power to overtake would get old pretty soon. Again, I originally thought this made a van a non-starter. But I was following a VW Torbay Transporter (whatever that is) down the A96 this morning and he wasn’t hanging about, which is basically what prompted this thread.

Converted or not? I like the idea of a “project”, but if I’m honest time is the one thing I don’t have and anyway there are a ton of jobs around the house and garden that I really should do (but usually just go for a bike ride instead!).

The ability for two of us to sleep in it would be useful, but I suspect that we are just as likely to park it somewhere, hike to somewhere nice and wild camp. So, I’m thinking something more suited for adventures than camping, but I’m not really sure what that means. Either way, it’s mostly just going to be me and my (large fat) bike on a couple of rides a week (up to an hour or so from home). The idea of chucking the bike in the van, having somewhere to change out of my muddy wet gear into dry clothes and maybe even having a brew sounds fantastic. But maybe that’s just a fantasy.

It would need to take a family of four, plus all our gear and the dog the length of the country a few times a year, so long distance comfort is important. My only experience of vans was renting a Transit back in 2000 to haul some stuff from Cornwall up to Aberdeen. From what I remember it was hardly luxurious and quite noisy at speed.

Fuel economy? Can you park them in car parks?

Apologies for the rambling, but I’d welcome any thoughts.

I’ve had a van as my car for a few years now. It does everything you want. It’s a Trafic so I do have the lower speed limits to contend with but I don’t really notice any difference in journey times.

Removable seats in the rear give loads of flexibility for seating and load carrying. Insulated, it’s quiet and very warm for sleeping in (we just used a double airbed).

Parking hasn’t been a major issue. I can get into Tesco-sized spaces 🙂

40+mpg on a trip.

We’re just about to convert it into a camper though. I’ve chosen a layout that will still let me put a bike inside but since moving to the Highlands I’ve not done as much driving around with bikes in anyway.

The seats are actually up for sale…

also interested

You need to be slightly selective on car parks but mostly got the LWB transit into supermarkets etc just no multi stories. Comfortable driving position generally and if you make an effort to line and get your ply done right can be quiet.

RP – want a better look at mine?

I’ve been looking at a crew cab Vito or iLoad/i800 (don’t want a T4/T5 down here, they are like the Saxo was a few years ago…..) as my next vehicle. Yaris and a trailer isn’t the best for camping….though I will miss the £30 a year tax and 60+mpg….

I replaced my family estate car with a VW Cali Beach in October. I have the 150bhp version which is fine in fast roads but there is a 204bhp version if you want extra welly.

The van is great as an everyday driver for our family of 4, I have extra seats and can carry 7 if I need to. Plenty of space in the boot and with parking sensors easy to park in a single space.

Fantastic for cycling as there’s loads of room to get changed and I have a diesel heater which can make it nice and cosy. My bike goes inside when it’s clean, say while at work then after my ride I shove it on the VW 4 bike rack on the tailgate. It has a pop up roof and can sleep 4. Don’t have a kitchen in it as it’s my everyday driver. I have a fridge on order though.

Only downside is they are expensive and take a while to get made.

Same here as Scotroutes- my car is a Trafic, though its now a “full” 2.1 ton campervan. SWB in my case, with a pop-top roof.

Yes, its easily doable.

And also- you’re more than free to take the tour of mine if you’re near South Lanarkshire, though if the A96 is near for you, you’ll probably be closer to he (and he’s more interesting than me.)

I went through the process of deciding between a basic van or something else, though my circumstances are different. As nice as some of the upsides of a van sound, I reckon it comes with some serious downsides. A commercial van can do the miles and has room to change, put bikes in with no hassle for sure. They are unrefined though, basic suspension, poor soundproofing, not that great MPG, not as fast as you might think. Depends on budget to some extent though, and age of van.

Compromise. Compromise in the right areas. If you’ll be spending plenty of time driving/commuting then you’re better off with something more comfortable, economical, quieter. Get a decent sized MPV that you can shove bikes in and sleep in. It won’t be as good for changing, but you can get yourself a robie and a blanket and have some privacy (and tint rear windows). Put a stove kit in the boot for a brew, no need for a fully fitted out camper if that’s all you need. Also, an MPV will transport the family in more comfort and safety, be better around town and for parking in normal headroom.

Sounds like you want a crew cab van or a minibus with seats you can remove and configure as needed.

TBH I’d keep a little car as well if I was driving 60 miles a day. Having a van and Fiesta works well for us.

we’ve got a car and a iveco daily camper conversion in the family. My driving preference is the iveco, the elevated driving position is helpful when it comes to overtaking, and the 2.3 diesel is capable also.
Parking can be restrictive in town, but i can live with that.
Fuel consumption could be an issue as a commuter tho, best i get is 30 mpg

i get round the hard to park in town issue by not parking in town.

i cycle to the village and take the bus. Easier and quicker than a car + parking and cheaper 😀

I have had a van for a car for the last 7 years. Can count on one hand the number of times ive wished i had rear seats really.

As for the overtaking thing….. i find in the van i chill out and just accept that we will be going at what ever speed the vehicle in front is ….. although as paladin – my iveco certainly makes a good go of overtaking 45mph dawdlers compared to my old pug partner 1.9 non turbo.

For balance, I’ll just say that I have a T4 and a normal car, and I’m glad I don’t have to drive the T4 every day (80 miles/day commuting). There’s no real issues with parking or anything, it’s just…. not a car.

I have a Vito Extra Long, commute 50 miles per day and drive to the Alps 4 times a year. We take the Vito rather than my wife’s BMW520 as the Vito is more comfortable for long trips. It also is low enough to go into multi storey car parks and with a rear view camera is easy to park.

Recently replaced my Mk1 Focus with a Transit Custom. Massively prefer driving it – elevated position, nice big mirrors, much roomier up front, more comfortable, quieter, etc. Got all the extras so pretty luxurious for a van & easy to park with the camera (it’s only slightly bigger than a Mondeo estate anyway!) Vans have come on a LONG way in the last 10 years or so! Only had one car park so far I couldn’t get into.

Awesome for cycling/walking trips (the fact alone you can sit in the back and get changed makes it a winner!) Should’ve got one years ago. 🙂

I’ve only got the SWB with 3 seats up front but if you have to carry 4 you can get the LWB crew cab version or even the MPV version (Tourneo) and just take out the extra seats you don’t need.

Ooh, my thread has moved! I thought a thread about a van to mainly use for biking would fit in the Bike forum, but fair enough I guess it’s borderline at best.

Thanks for all the comments and thanks for the offer scotroutes. I may take you up on that, but it’s just idle speculation at the moment. Mainly based on chasing one down the A96 this morning! Thinking about it, we do know a few people with van conversions. In fact they seem to be surprisingly common up here, so I guess they must work.

Fantastic for cycling as there’s loads of room to get changed and I have a diesel heater which can make it nice and cosy.

Now that sounds amazing. I’m tending to venture a bit further afield for my weekly ride these days. The biggest problem is that I get back wet and cold (even with the heater on full blast) then often have to leap back into family duties. So, I’m thinking that I should start getting changed straight after the ride. Obviously that doesn’t require a van, but it would be cool.

I’ve got a 116CDi Vito Dualiner Long, 160hp so definitely not slow, will do an indicated 120 and I average high 30’s to the gallon. Very comfortable, quiet and drives nicely and if you do have to overtake something you’re sitting that much higher so you can often get a better view of the road ahead.
You get warm air out of the heater pretty quick as part of the heating circuit seems to go through the exhaust manifold.
It’s for sale if you’re interested, but probably too far away.

We sold our BMW when we got the T5, thinking that it’d be easy to use as an everyday vehicle. It wasn’t.

Its odd – knowing you’re going camping or to the coast for the day etc etc in the van is great. I guess its knowing you have the comfort of the van when you get there. And even though our van is pretty luxurious its hardly the joy to drive that our Golf is which is quiet, not rattly, quick and much, much, much easier to drive day to day including parking, negotiating traffic etc.

Its great to have both.

I think it depends on where you live and drive.

I live in a pretty rural area and I try to avoid city centres.

I have a Traffic Sport 140Dci and I love it. I had a BMW 135i and I never drove it, so I sold it last month.

If I had to find a parking space outside a terraced house in a busy city, I might think differently. However for me it works brilliantly. I don’t sleep in it (panel van) but for carting around push bikes and motorbikes its brilliant.

I wish I had bought one years ago.

When I bought it I was not sure I could live with it every day. Turns out I can 🙂

As my mate Keith has just replaced his Volvo estate with a Transit Double Cab in Van thing (he has three young boys) I’d say yes.
Oh, and that wee Scotroutes feller manages too…. 🙂

I think the only issue would be speed limits… (you wanting to boost on an that)

I’m a few weeks into campervan ownership now. It is my daily drive. It was a risk, for wasn’t sure how I’d get on with driving a van but a few weeks in i’m actually enjoying it. I’ve changed my driving a lot, it’s not fast so I have to slow down a bit, which is no bad thing as I probably drive too fast before. Parking is not a problem so far though I’ve not tried a multi storey car park yet, but it’s 2.1m high so should fit in most modern ones.

It’s s SWB T5, so near as makes no difference about the same footprint as the SMax I came from. Fuel economy is similar. In the smax I’d get about 500 a 550 miles out of a 65ltr fill and 600 miles on a long uninterrupted motorway run, so far with he T5 I’m not too far behind that. I got 480 miles out of the last tank but could have squeezed more out and it seems to be a similar sized tank to the smax.

It’s a high line spec so nice to have the a/c and cruise control, but missing the multi function steering wheel. It’s the 102bhp model so slow to accelerate but will easily maintain normal motorway speeds once you’re there so the trick is to look ahead and try to keep her rollling. And missing the 6th gear. But all in all it’s fine to drive around. So far so good, maybe I’ll feel different in a year or so’s time but it’s only a vehicle at the end of the day.

A SWB T5 camper has been my ‘car’ for six years. An Amdro Angel self-conversion from a kit, and it will do everything you describe.

I have an xlwb viano 3.0 and it’s awesome. There is more than enough room to sleep behind the second row of seats without folding or moving anything. Been to the alps twice last year and going again in july. It’s not the cheapest thing tp run though.

If you’re equally as likely to park the van and wild camp as you say. Basic van and part-conversion in the back and just use your camping gear for cooking, etc. rather than full blown conversion.

We’ve had a converted LWB T5 for close to 10 years and it was my sole vehicle for 2 of those. Perfectly acceptable daily driver and brilliant on Scottish A-roads with around 175bhp and campervan (normal car) speed limits. Overtaking not an issue despite weighing 2.5t or so.

Looking to change to a Kombi/Double-cab-in-van thingy as we’ve moved on to a (hangs head in shame) caravan which is better for the kids. It won’t bother everyone but some kombi-style vans (not all) meet criteria for ‘dual-purpose vehicles’ hence can travel at normal speed limits. Criteria (see HERE and HERE) is:
• <2,040kg unladen weight*;
• Rigid roof;
• At least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat;
• Side and rear windows of a minimum size;
• Meets the minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas.

* Some VWs and Fords are above this hence the ‘minefield’.

My 2p

Vans are never going to be as comfortable as a well made car and will always be noisier.

Size and weight are what influence fuel economy (and performance for a given engine). A VW Caddy will do better than a VW Transporter. Camper fit out adds a *lot* of full time weight and often doesn’t leave space for bikes inside.

Think about what your priorities are – if it’s not going to be a camper you’re really looking at something that’s easy to put bikes and luggage inside (rather than outside). That gives you more options on ‘van like’ vehicles that aren’t actually vans which gives you more car like ride and luxury. Windows all round is more relaxing to drive as your visibility is better than a van (can have them ‘limo’ tinted to obscure contents). Seats in the back mean you don’t pay commercial tolls.

A standard height Caddy or Transporter is just under 2m which means you can get into anywhere you can take a car.

Cheap – Berlingo and equivalents.
More expensive but better built – VW Caddy Maxi Life or Ford Torneo Connect.
Bigger – Transporter et al

Our caddy life has a carpeted rear but we fitted a VW rubber protector over the top so mud and stuff can be swept out.

Big peopel carrier MPVs make great bike wagons if the seats can be removed but fewer and fewer of those about. Old generation VW Sharan and Renault Espace give you luxury car interior and ride quality and a van like space (though floor higher than a van based car).

• <2,040kg unladen weight*;
• Rigid roof;
• At least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat;
• Side and rear windows of a minimum size;
• Meets the minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas.

and what it was registered as …. some DPVS are registered by business as commercial for tax purposes …. its very hard if not impossible to get them changed …. as mentioned above N1 vs M1 above.

Mate of mine has a converted Traffic

In many ways it’s great, surprisingly economical, and refined enough too.

However what no one has mentioned, and would be my major concern if it is the only thing for moving your kids around in, I bet they are completely unsafe i.e. All that interior to fly around in bad accident, and how safe are the back of vans anyhow??

My rear seats have belts. The passengers are also further from any rear intrusion.

I guess he also means properly designed side and rear impact protection and airbags, pre-tensioners etc…

and what it was registered as …. some DPVS are registered by business as commercial for tax purposes …. its very hard if not impossible to get them changed …. as mentioned above N1 vs M1 above.

Have a read of the full criteria. I believed N1/M1 made a difference too, but from reading (extensively…) the Gov’s guidance it doesn’t form part of DPV criteria. I hope I’m not missing something.

From the second link in my post (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3/made), the criteria for DPV’s in its entirety:

dual-purpose vehicle

a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—

(i)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(ii)satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(a)the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(b)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver’s seat must—
(i)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(ii)be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and
(c)the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.

(apologies, formatting is terrible – it’s easier to read via the link)

However what no one has mentioned, and would be my major concern if it is the only thing for moving your kids around in, I bet they are completely unsafe i.e.

I’d always assumed they’d be pretty good in a crash (big, high up, etc) although a quick look on the NCAP website shows that’s not the case – except if you’ve got a Custom like wot I have which has a 5 star rating. A few other vans get 5 stars too (new Merc thing, Proace, etc), T5 gets 4 stars and Traffic/Vivaro a miserable 3.

However what no one has mentioned, and would be my major concern if it is the only thing for moving your kids around in, I bet they are completely unsafe i.e. All that interior to fly around in bad accident, and how safe are the back of vans anyhow??

Also one of the concerns we have with ours. Proper conversion from registered company (Jerba) with RIB seat/bed (crash tested, 3 x 3-point belts, even available with isofix), but the furniture, etc is still only screwed together. Would hate to think what would happen to rear seat occupants in a big crash. It’s one of the reasons we’re moving to a dual-cab/kombi – we’ll make sure what we get has a properly full bulkhead separating cab from cargo area.

I can’t understand why anyone would want a car when they can have a van.

Much more relaxing to drive, good high seating position means you can see over cars in a queue, handling and acceleration aren’t a problem because you don’t buy a van to be a boy racer. The comment by a11y about the value of a bulkhead is worth keeping in mind though.

All the vans I have driven have decent mpg when driven within speed limits. Travel time doesn’t seem to suffer.

Presumably anyone wanting a van to replace their car would do the basic fit out to cut down noise and insulate it to prevent condensation.

The only problem I have with a van is the constant highpitched whine coming from the passenger seat – unfortunately my wife thinks otherwise about vans… 🙁

I’ve had a T5,Vito and now a T6 with a Volvo est in-between. I won’t be going back to a car,(the Volvo confirmed that) life is just easier with a van. It’s comfortable, quick enough, 40+mpg, what more do you want?

I guess he also means properly designed side and rear impact protection and airbags, pre-tensioners etc…

Airbags are only of use if there is something nearby that you are likely to impact on in the event of a crash. In a van you’re a hell of a lot further away from anything to hit in the event of a crash.

The rock and roll bed/seat in my camper has full 3-point inertia real seatbelts attached. The only thing it doesn’t have are headrests which in the event of being rear-ended might result in some whiplash to those occupying the seats, but I’ve hatched a plan to fit some.

I thought trying to get my head around all the different treads and rubber compounds on mountain bike tyres was hard enough, but this is a whole new level of confusing.

A SWB T5 camper has been my ‘car’ for six years. An Amdro Angel self-conversion from a kit, and it will do everything you describe.

Sounds simple; buy a Transporter, buy a conversion kit, job done. But to replace a car it has to have the same speed limits. So it looks as though the Transporter would have to be a Kombi. That just leaves the plethora of different versions that seem to exist (T29, T30, T32 etc).

We only have a van now. SWB Vivaro. The only changes from standard van for us has been leisure battery for charging kit and reversing camera. We don’t sleep in it. The bikes stay in it and we’re in the tent. A basic set up but works for us. It fits in most car parks, some multistories are a non starter though. The seats aren’t as comfortable, but we’ve had it down to the Alps and into Italy. Returns around 37mpg.
I would have loved a VW but the vivaro was sensible mileage, had aircon and was half the price

If you convert it to a full camper then you can apply to have the classification changed so it becomes car speed limits. You need to send in photos of the completed vehicle showing the cooker, sink, bed and table (I think that’s all) and they need to be obviously permanently fitted.

But to replace a car it has to have the same speed limits

It really doesn’t, unless all your driving is on motorways at 2 in the morning. How much of your driving is actually in 60 MPH+ zones going at the speed limit, vs how much in 60 MPH+ zones with heavy traffic or someone slower in front, or urban driving where the speed limits for vans are the same. In reality the lower limit will make negligible difference. Obviously this is assuming you never speed in your car currently in which case the point is moot.

I fancied a van but settled on a T5 Caravelle
Classed as car so speed limits same
Flexible rear seating, can be up to 7 seats and also has table for picnics
Have slept on the fold down rear seat
Big consideration for me was cost on ferry from Ireland to U.K., a transporter was working out about £100 a trip more expensive than caravelle even though they are basically same vehicle
Also I have car insurance, a transporter double cab would mean van insurance, one of the drawbacks is loosing ability to drive any other car third party on your own insurance