In the very very early stages of toying with the idea of organising an xc race along with my club. Haven’t got far with the concept at all, got a potential course on forestry commission land, but haven’t approached them yet about permission. Before I do I wanted to check re. Rights of way.

I am pretty much certain that crossing a foot path is fine – I know this occurs at a Gorrick I’ve raced in the past. I think just signage is required, as it would be near the start finish I think we’d have a Marshall at the crossing anyway. I’m more concerned that part of the course would run along a regional path. It’s on a fire road with space to both sides. I was thinking we could stake out the fire road and leave the (wide) grass verge as the path. Any idea if this would be viable?

Last time I organised a race on FC land I wasn’t allowed to race on bridleways, but could race alongside it on the grass.

Same at Cannock. 5 m wide fireroad ROW but the race course runs parallel to it, not on it

Thanks both, not sure if this scuppers it or not, was hoping to use the actual fire road to give a nice wide hill climb. Will assess on my ride later.

Fire roads are fine unless it’s a BW. Footpaths can be raced on with permission, but racing on BW illegal at any time.
You can neutralise BW sections though, if short – signs to say no overtaking, and marshal it.
FC now require 10 weeks to consider permit applications and the application must have route map, full risk assessment, insurance evidence (which is tricky as insurers don’t want to confirm cover more than thirty days before an event) and Emergency Action Plan. Some FC forests are far more helpful than others.
Don’t be put off though – it’s a buzz.

Thanks boxelder. Long way off so may be a 2017 plan, give us time to think about logistics etc. Club has run cx events so knows about insurance hopefully.

I’ve heard few times that racing on bridleways is illegal. How does the 3 Peaks Cyclocross manage it (up and down Pen-Y-Ghent lane)? Is it that racing is allowed as long as the land owner gives permission or is it just that it’s been running long enough?

Fire roads are fine unless it’s a BW. Footpaths can be raced on with permission, but racing on BW illegal at any time.

Some big event organisers ignore this, I wouldn’t

Pen-y-ghent lane you need to check the status, the restriction only applies to bridleways, it could be a byway or other status

Speak to the highways department of the local authority. At HTN we had to close about a dozen or so footpaths. They’ll tell you how to do it, but the enforcement notice will cost you. IIRC Bury Council wanted about £300 for a 6 hour closure, but it varies. Bolton wanted over £1000 to close 400m!

We had to post the closure notices at either end of the closed section 7 days prior. Also we had to marshal the footpaths that were at the extremities of the course. Some dog walkers got a bit shirty with us one year, so next time we gave that job to Ton (formerly of this parish) and he had no bother. You can’t stop anyone walking down a closed footpath, but you have to advise them that it is closed and that there is a risk of them getting hurt or causing an incident.

You won’t be allowed on Bridal Ways if it is a competitive event. Either find another route, run parallel to them on the grass, or make sure that in your literature that there is no mention of it being a competitive event ;-). The last two solutions were recommended to us by the Highways Department.

The Highways Department will probably want to see a risk assessment and proof of your public liability insurance. I think HTN was covered for up to £10,000,000 per incident!

Good luck, but expect a depressing amount of paperwork and having to deal with people who will more than likely not give a shit and for who saying NO is a much easier option than saying YES.

There is only one reason why HTN stopped. The Local Authority.

Some of the 3 Peaks CX has to be walked;

“There will be a drinks station at Brunscar between Chapel-le-Dale and Whernside at the start of 20 metres of bridleway, where competitors must walk the 20 metres and ride again after the bridleway (due to bridleway laws).”

As for the rest of the course I don’t know. This year the Harriers vs. Cyclists had a similar walking restriction on a small section.

I would check with FC the access permissions/ PROW/ concessionary acess that operate on the site, this means you can then mitigate

don’t underestimate how bloody minded dog walkers, no competitive riders, horse riders and anyone who feels aggrieved will be on the day. If you can get a FC rep on the day it will help

I remember racing XC at Bringewood once and having to get off and carry the bike for a couple of metres where the course crossed a bridleway. The dismounting was strictly policed too.

I think HTN was covered for up to £10,000,000 per incident!

If I’d known that’d I’d have crashed a bit harder 😉

If you “apply” for the full £10,000,000 you sadly won’t be around to receive it.

Pen y Ghent lane isn’t classified as a bridle way is how

Thanks all. Footpath not bridle way, but is ‘open access’ land. Will assess how serious the club is and get in touch with the relevant people. Think there is the makings of a classic old school xc course, long fireroad drag climb out from arena, twisty Woodsy singletrack back though deciduous trees with a loamy conifer descent to the start finish field, out the other side on a rocky climb, more woody stuff and then a steep chute back to the start, nothing super tech but testing enough. Fingers crossed 🙂

Ton (formerly of this parish)

Where’s Ton gone?

“There will be a drinks station at Brunscar between Chapel-le-Dale and Whernside at the start of 20 metres of bridleway, where competitors must walk the 20 metres and ride again after the bridleway (due to bridleway laws).”

That’s where the ‘water station’ is on the Three Peaks.

The no racing on bridleways bit is annoying, but there’s no getting around it. That’s why the Manchester Commonwealth Games didn’t use all the good track of Rivington – because it’s literally ringed with bridleways and there was no getting up there. Even crossing a BW is a no-no

I assume BW racing being a no-no is because it’s a public highway, but then races can be organised on other highways, i.e. roads. Perhaps as above with closures and costs involved.

Or is a BW special and just flat out no, no matter what (and why? Because of the horse community who’d get in a huff about it)?

I’ve raced at three enduros (proper ones with engines) that have crossed bridleways. A fella with a flag was the only concession.

A bridleway is special

You can do what you want, the consequences vary depending on the location

Look at the Whinlater races, look at the PROW and ask how they mitigate the issue (or not)

A BW is special. It’s a specific law which only mentions BWs and bicycles. You can race cars and motorbikes on BWs, but not bicycles.

Look at the Whinlater races

Which BW do they use?
The FC there aren’t happy about FP use, but there aren’t that many public FPs there. Marshal the crossing and they’re generally fine.

turns out I’d failed to realise my proposed venue was a special area of conservation, so footpaths were the least of my worries. Gutted. Will have to look into another venue, but that one had it all 😥

Where was it, Iain?

What about Kilvey btw? Few ROWs – only one I believe – and plenty of precedent for races there before.

special area of conservation

Not automatically a problem – depends on time of year and assessment

I have some experience here, and some good contacts, would be glad to have a chat and see if we can help you out, drop me a PM

labrat.imba (at) gmail.com

@ninfan, thanks for the offer. I think the venue isn’t going to be viable as there a range of issues. If we want to persue it I’ll email you though.

@Jon, Was hoping to hold one in Park Woods, as wmbs looking for a South Wales venue (though don’t think we’d get anything sorted for this year now so might aim for a go-mtb event as a trial somewhere). Unfortunately the area manager is already concerned about one of the paths I was planning to use as it goes right by a badger set. Also it turns out some of the land is leased full time to the scouts which complicates things.. And the NRW manager was concerned about the access road… And although I may have misunderstood it seems the council want £3.5k for a temporary foot path closure! £500 for the admin and £3k to advertise the closure

The NRW guy suggested Millwood or the bit of penllegaer north of the m4. No idea if there is a suitable course in either location though. Kilvey is a really good idea- should have thought of that. Where did you used to have the parking and start area?

Parking and start at Kilvey was the flat banked area used by MXing kids these days*. Access via Bonymaen square up an unmade road which leads straight up the cement road. We used to have problems with kids messing about with the course and once, at the MTB Tour of Britain, a quad was stolen. Make ofvthat what you will!

Where would people park for Penllergaer north? There would probably be a course up there.

*It’s actually an ancient site of some kind, but that seems to have been forgotten..

I remember you telling me about the kids messing up courses and thieving before! I guess you’d also have to talk to the people trail building up there as would be good to include some of the tech tracks.

Not 100% where the penllegaer car park is, it looks like there is one next to the services but doesn’t look that big, might be worth a look around.