kimbers – Member

And TMo did start out racing UKGEs

Nah, she was in it with the bricks in the UK and had done some abroad too back before anyone was really doing it here.

Im not sure about the EWS point as its different to DH because anyone can enter an EWS event. For example I am a middle to back of the field master but I have raced three EWS races in the last two years.
If you look at EWS riders like Greg Callaghan or Jamie Nicoll, the reason why they got pro deals is because they saved their cash over the winter while training and lived in their van in europe for an EWS season and got the results in the races. To be able to do that you probably have to ignore your national series anyway because it would be too expensive to keep coming home.

Im sure the two series will be ok once they don’t have date clashes and use different names. I think they will have different audiences.
Regarding the numbers issue – that might be the case at UKGE but lots of other races/series sell out pretty fast.

I can understand the uneasiness about the BDS guys jumping in and imposing a national series when they’ve had very little previous involvement in the discipline.

But if the UK federation doesn’t feel ready to step into the breach with a truly credible series then it’s hard to complain.

Is it just gonna be a case of natural selection?

BC would add very little I think. The reason BDS exists (not to belittle the hard work of the team) is because if you want to race WC then you have to have National points, and BDS is that access route. Teams & top level riders support BDS because of this, those top riders make attractive races, which attract middle riders etc… its a trickle down effect.

Enduro doesn’t have that. Theres no feeder series for EWS (although that would probably be a good thing) you just pay and play. At least with UKGE we had a defacto UK series – it worked out fine as it was the biggest, one of the oldest, and probably the best distributed around the country. Everyone just kind of agreed it was our national series. If we end up with two series of similar scale then its more likely no-one will be realistically able to call themselves national champ, as opposed to having 2.

My thoughts are that while we need a series across the whole country, we don’t necessarily need a “National Series”. Look at Superenduro – yes they have just had a year out, but I had a very interesting chat with Enrico at Eurobike and I think we’ll see something in 2016 from what he told me. Superenduro was never a “National Series” – it was an umbrella organisation that worked with local event organisers, leveraged the tourism money and big headline sponsors and produced high quality media content/video etc to keep exposure high for sponsors and teams, and so ensure their commitment.

I reckon we need something like that over here – in years of racing, I’ve always felt we almost apologise to local areas for the “inconvenience” of bringing hundreds of riders to an area, rather than selling them the dream of all the extra money to their campsites, pubs, farm shops etc etc etc. Essentially a charismatic frontman who can sell the value and so create excitement all round.

Hope this all settles itself down soon!

My thoughts are that while we need a series across the whole country, we don’t necessarily need a “National Series”. Look at Superenduro – yes they have just had a year out, but I had a very interesting chat with Enrico at Eurobike and I think we’ll see something in 2016 from what he told me. Superenduro was never a “National Series” – it was an umbrella organisation that worked with local event organisers, leveraged the tourism money and big headline sponsors and produced high quality media content/video etc to keep exposure high for sponsors and teams, and so ensure their commitment.

I reckon we need something like that over here – in years of racing, I’ve always felt we almost apologise to local areas for the “inconvenience” of bringing hundreds of riders to an area, rather than selling them the dream of all the extra money to their campsites, pubs, farm shops etc etc etc. Essentially a charismatic frontman who can sell the value and so create excitement all round.
That was discussed at the last enduro meeting and everyone including UKGE seemed keen but that was pre no 2016 UKGE series.

BTW Steve said on more that one occasion that UKGE wasn’t ‘the National series’

Or frontwoman – are you wearing some of those misogynist socks there ?

I offered you the job, you refused!

Where MTB Enduro and our British Enduro Series Stand.

We are not involved with Si, BDS or thankfully BC.

The series is supported by Marin plus a growing number of other sponsors, I will releasing this news out over the next week or so.

We started looking at running a national series this year, and would have run with or against the UKGE crew.

We have published dates and we have venues sorted, we will release the venues when we release the full website on the 9th October, if we can publish the site before that then we will.

The venues are fresh and we will have proper infrastructure in place to make our series worthy of a national series. We also have the backing from great sponsors who are investing into the series.

As some of you are aware I am happy to push the boundaries with technical tracks, and this will continue through next year, and we will also have some more pedally tracks so that we can find the best all round rider for 2016. I feel that enduro is a test of fitness and skill, our series will bring that out in the winner.

The format isn’t changing from the Mondraker Enduro Series as it worked so well. We need to explain the one day or two day format better, and we will get resolved on the new website that is due to be released on the 9th October. We will not have timed transition times or seeded start times, without these the races have a more ride with your mates feel. Personally I feel this is important. We all want to have fun and ride with our mates with a fair bit of banter thrown in. The feedback from the riders this year totally supports this format.

As for the overall result, we have seven rounds in 2016. We are going to allow one round to be dropped from the series – whether that be the riders worse result or one they cannot attend due to injury or other commitments and so on. So basically your 6 best rounds out of 7 count.

I can’t stress this enough though. IF THE RIDERS HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE SERIES THEN PLEASE SHARE WITH US – THE SERIES IS YOURS AS MUCH AS OURS. We want the riders to feel that this is their event series so please talk to us.

So finally we are trying to deliver what we feel the riders want from a British National Series #BES2016 and, importantly, a fun weekend/season of riding. We are going to deliver a non-elitist series for you the riders. Hopefully we have come across the right way and we will attract more riders into our sport of Enduro

Feel like I am jumping into a lions den!

Do the misogynist socks come free with the leather pants and cowboy boots?

As an extra we are fully behind the Enduro Federation that the Enduro Event organisers started. Steve Parr was a main driving force of this and I hope that I is still going to be involved.

We believe that the Federation would be a better voice for the sport of MTB Enduro compared with BC.

Real cowboys don’t wear no sissy-arse socks Steven !

Is an arse sock something for Enduro Virgins so they don’t leave unwanted nasties for the riders behind them?

I guess that would explain why they only give you one.

Enduro is evolving and maybe moving away from a large scale series within the UK, the era of quality regionals(WGES PMBA SeS) and one off big events(TweedLove or ArdRock) work well for riders and racers. On there pockets and time invested traveling to a local or making a long weekend at King&Queen or Ard’Rock.

FeD is a non starter as you need non race promoters running it, don’t police yourself you may lose sight of your goals as your pockets get heavy.

Bottom line too many Enduro based races in UK diluting the field

Get a room you two.

Also, Midwales series sounds like exactly what I’d hope a series to be, personally… Also, I don’t know if it’s a great idea to have two parallel events but if they have different feel and appeal maybe it’s a goer- and with a drive towards new venues, simpler formats, no unneccesary bollocks this feels like very different terrain from UKGE. Some people might see it as a step back… Well actually, so do I, a step back to before the wheels started to come off.

Best of luck fellers. Looking forward to seeing more detail of what Si’s planning too.

FeD is a non starter as you need non race promoters running it, don’t police yourself you may lose sight of your goals as your pockets get heavy.

Agree, What’s your schedule for the next 10 years? 😯

Sorry Dad !

There’s certainly plenty of choice for next year!

Cheers midwales, series sounds good, though I personally think qualifying/seeding makes racing a bit easier as youre less likely to have hold ups on stages

I think things to get right are timing and communication, I definitely like the sound of challenging techy tracks !
What will the deal be with categories? I’m assuming elites will be separate, especially without seeding?

Will have to see what Si comes up with but I think this bit of promo, from the BDS is a brilliant idea, well executed!
http://m.pinkbike.com/news/retrospective-british-downhill-legends-2015.html

Things are so much simpler in Scotland lol

Stating the bleeding obvious, it would be in everyone’s best interests if there weren’t two series called the same thing. Any resolution to the naming issue on the horizon?

We will not have timed transition times or seeded start times, without these the races have a more ride with your mates feel. Personally I feel this is important. We all want to have fun and ride with our mates with a fair bit of banter thrown in. The feedback from the riders this year totally supports this format.

Personally I don’t agree that a ‘national’ series should be run this way. There are plenty of ‘regional’ events for the ‘ride with your mates’ crowd.

I think UKGE had the format pretty much dialed. The only thing I would change is that your seeding time doesn’t count for the overall race time, but you get points for seeding that count towards the series. This way your race weekend isn’t ruined by a mechanical/crash, which is a real downer Saturday night.

One of the reasons I loved UKGE was not just riding with my mates, but making new ones. Riders you qualify near at each race that you might not get to know as well otherwise. UKGE had both, you practice with your mates on Saturday, and then get into race mode on Sunday. I’ve just come back from the PMBA and one of the things I struggled with was getting into the right mindset, am I racing or just pottering about in the woods? Turns out I was crashing, anyways…

Seeding and start times also spreads out the racers. I spent a lot of time queuing for stages on Sunday and it’s also pot luck as to who you have in front of you. I want to be going into a stage thinking about my lines, not about where I might catch the guy in front, or get caught by the fast lad behind. Either way, both the passer and person being passed lose out.

A national series needs to be competitive, and I think seeding and start times gives you that with less frustration. Just keep the qualifying as points like DH.

Just my two-penneth.

I’m with YorkshireRipper on this one, UKGE had it pretty much right. Its a very sociable thing, sticking with your mates probably makes it less social not more so. I like the idea of points for seeding too. It was always such a PITA when you get a crap seeding which wiped out your race hopes. Being mis-seeded is bad enough without carrying the time penalty too.

totally agree with yorksripper

im guessing that Si Patttons version will be a bit more race than ride

really enjoy getting to know the riders around you, sometimes you qualify with mates, sometimes not, its always a laugh!

The Irish series does not have a seeding run and it works really well. They did start to allow the top ten in each cat start off earlier but there are no set stage start times.
Everyone does have a time that they leave the start arena though so not everyone is leaving at the same time so the big queues don’t happen at the start of stages.
You still catch/get caught even with the seeding run depending on the type of stage it is e.g if seeding is pedally and the other stages are more technical or vice versa. I have done other races in europe and they didnt have seeding runs either – actually I think UKGE is the only race I have done that has a seeding run.

I have done other races in europe and they didnt have seeding runs either – actually I think UKGE is the only race I have done that has a seeding run.

megavalanche certainly does, not done any other non-uk races

Thats qualification for the race too though and its a one run thing rather than multi stage.
I don’t really have an issue with seeding other than it favours the guys you arrive on the Friday and practice unoffically (but banning unofficial practice would also achieve that).
I have only practiced on a Friday at grizedale because its such a long drive for me and I was shocked that pretty much everyone was shuttling in their vans between stages.

YorkshireRipper +1 again.

I met a right good bunch of people over the last couple of years ‘racing’ UKGE, mainly due to the way its set up. Always seem to be the same faces around you in the transitions, and plenty time to ride with your mates too.

a few people were shuttling at grizedale, the majority were riding round!

benpinnick – Member

sticking with your mates probably makes it less social not more so.

You don’t have to, you know.

Can’t see how you’d fit seeding in without making it a two day event (since you’d need a practice loop also on a one-dayer).

Does everyone feel a “national series” should be a compulsory two day event?

midwales – are you aiming for your series to be the pinnacle national one?

a few people were shuttling at grizedale, the majority were riding round!

Maybe it was just the time I arrived and rode around but I felt like I was the only guy actually riding the full course. Pretty much everyone else I met was shuttling at least part of the course. I was genuinely shocked at what I saw.

I guess it is beside the point anyway but my advice to any new organisers would be to have no grey area around practice like UKGE do (i.e. its unofficial but allowed). If practising on Friday is ok, then make it official practice (I would still arrive friday night and practice Saturday for most races).

I liked the seeding at UKGE and would be happy to see that replicated but the red kites this year were between 8 and 11 stages over 2 days of racing. I have not done a red kite but that sound pretty cool to me.

midwales- I know it will differ venue to venue but is your plan for the #BES2016/MBES 10ish stages over 2 day?

friday practice is a big advantage, for those that can do it

i like it as its an extra days riding and that part is usually done with your mates

i believe mbes will be 1 or 2 day up to the rider?

i believe mbes will be 1 or 2 day up to the rider?

I think you mean:
1 day race 5ish stages only.
2 day race all 10ish stages.

+1 yorkshireripper

Seeding adds a extra edge, would be good if a series went same way but as previous post split points earned between seeding and overall result.

Mini Enduro used a self seeding system last year. Rank yourself 1-5 (1 = fastest 5 = slowest).

If you assume 80% of the field are going to have ridden at least one enduro before then they should be able to reasonably predict their number. If the organizers can give an idea of stages lengths (Mike Marsden has done this with the Welsh Enduros) then this would also help.

Seeding is great, but needs the event to be 2 days really.

Paddyb
“I guess it is beside the point anyway but my advice to any new organisers would be to have no grey area around practice like UKGE do (i.e. its unofficial but allowed). If practising on Friday is ok, then make it official practice”

“Unofficial” practising is prob due to cost!
If it is Official they would need to put on marshals & first aid out on course. All adds to cost, (and enrty fees) And getting enough people to cover the whole course!

If people are lucky/planning a long weekend away and like to get in extra riding they can do.
And “unofficial” practising is done at you own risk etc, so no diff than riding at trail centres etc. to be fair it prob more safe than riding on your own at a trail centre as the prob more riders on course!
99% of riders will look out for each other.

I guess the issue for me really is that if its unofficial then the rules don’t apply.

that could be a easy fix, have in the rules no uplifts/shuttles vehicles on course over the 3 days of the event.