simply the most annoying thing ever to be found on a trail. I want to carry more speed into the berm as I'm confident I can turn in. That speed is then literally shaken out of me and my bike as i hit 5 or 6 yards of braking bumps before them and they're the main memory i've taken from whinlatter!!!!

so bloody annoying.

Go faster?

😛

I have honestly never understood people complaining about braking bumps. I hear it so many times, what do people want, a smooth road?

they're not difficult, they're not interesting, they're just horrible, and a sure sign that the trail was designed by an idiot.

When I did 7Stanes a couple of years ago I had the same experience, especially at Glentress. Ruined the downhills. In fact it's the only thing I remember from that trip, the braking bumps! The welsh trail centres don't seem to suffer the same problem, maybe they have better trail design?

And not many people say I need to speed up downhill! 😀

Trails are not designed by idiots but they do get ridden by idiots. Fast in on their skills compensator "oh shite" loads of brake, resulting in braking bumps, it happens at most trail centres. Answer ? ride them as a feature or ride back country trails…..

I havent experienced braking bumps at any trail centre in the UK, Ive been to most in Scotland and Wales.

and a sure sign that the trail was designed by an idiot.

why's that then? Unless the surface is solid rock it's always going to suffer to some extent, so that puts the blame on either those riding the trail, or those (not) maintaining it.

what do people want, a smooth road

no, but perhaps a bit of consistency with the trail everywhere else in the centre. You don't get braking bumps on a straight. You come hooning down a trail hitting kickers, drops, roots and other things, but then you come to a corner and in the run up to it are four bone jarring seemingly pointless braking bumps.

Are they actually a designed trail feature? Do people really put them in on purpose?

they're not difficult, they're not interesting, they're just horrible, and a sure sign that the trail was designed by an idiot.

That'll be every trail with good gradient that sees any decent amount of traffic then…

For me, braking bumps make a feature of many a boring section of trail centre trail…just try to pick lines around/across them…bring them on!

Oh, and god forbid should any of you get to france…you'll think their trails are poorly designed!

You don't get braking bumps on a straight …. but then you come to a corner and in the run up to it are four bone jarring seemingly pointless braking bumps.

And in other, even more shocking news, man walks dog.

You come hooning down a trail hitting kickers, drops, roots and other things, but then you come to a corner and in the run up to it are four bone jarring seemingly pointless braking bumps.

Don't look at the trail and try really, really hard to imagine that they're roots instead. That way they can become a trail feature for you?

taken out of context much realman?

The welsh trail centres don't seem to suffer the same problem, maybe they have better trail design?

think it's probably the amount of traffic different sites have

Think the Braking Bumps at Winny are bad you want to try the Red & Black runs at Les Gets hundreds of the fooking things 👿

Braking Bumps?
Ah, those things you get if you got to trail centres.. 🙂

no, but perhaps a bit of consistency with the trail everywhere else in the centre. You don't get braking bumps on a straight. You come hooning down a trail hitting kickers, drops, roots and other things, but then you come to a corner and in the run up to it are four bone jarring seemingly pointless braking bumps.

Are they actually a designed trail feature? Do people really put them in on purpose?

Er no. They are caused by the erosion of the trail as people are braking for the corner. Kind of like moguls on a ski slope – they are not put there by the trail pixies but get made by folk using the course.

Ah, those things you get if you got to trail centres..

had already ridden skiddaw that morning. Excellent descent!

Er no. They are caused by the erosion of the trail as people are
braking for the corner.

That's what i thought. The way some people are talking is as if they're a designed feature!

Talking about the blue trail, or the older ones? Not been around the blue since last winter when it was riding pretty well.

They're less of an issue on more technical/rocky trails but when it's *meant* to be fast and flowing they're pretty annoying. IMHO.

Just hop over them and pull a sick whip

Braking bumps. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

Aye, go higher, its an insult to your riding ability to take the Punter Line anyways..

elliptic – altura north loop

hels – the braking bumps aren't in the berms themselves…..

People of all skill levels ride Whinlatter, the business that the hire bikes do is testament to that.

As such not all the riders there are trail gods, indeed some are complete novices and when they approach a fast corner/obstacle/berm, do what comes naturally and hit the brakes. Live with it.

I know exactly which you mean (before a large right-hand berm) and they are awful. They were built into the track by the trail-builders.

Much biggger than breaking bumps need to be, and they all differ in size by quite a margin.

manual over them!

I know exactly which you mean (before a large right-hand berm) and they are awful. They were built into the track by the trail-builders.

Are these not long before the end of the trail, on the final descent? They look a bit like a tiny bmx triple jump or something like that, not quite sure what the point of them is. Do they come just after a really badly built tiny little table top jump?

If so, I agree, there awful

the way some trails are designed, braking bumps are inevitable – they're basically 'designed in' from the start.

any trail designer who follows a fast section with a steep section and or tight bend is an idiot.

the combination of fast-into-slow will require heavy braking, that'll mean erosion / braking bumps.

heavy erosion isn't sustainable, and the trail will need frequent expensive maintanence.

much better to slow riders down gradually using upslopes, sweeping bends, etc.

whatever your feelings towards them, braking bumps show that the trail designer didn't think about any of this, and that the trail is eroding quickly, which will require expensive maintenance sooner rather than later. someone will have to pay to fix it, and they won't be happy.

nor will you be when the price of the car-park goes up to cover it.

No, you can't just leave them alone. On a busy trail, areas that suffer from braking bumps will quickly cut down several feet.

Topography doesn’t always allow for a perfect transition from fast to slow. Good trail builders make the best out of the available trail run/direction so as to allow a safe entry into the next feature and maintain a flowing route.

Are these not long before the end of the trail, on the final descent

Yeah that's the ones. Worst trail feature i've come across anywhere.

stumpynya12 – Member

Topography doesn’t always allow for a perfect transition from fast to slow

then the trail is in the wrong place.

picture a section of trail, with a few corners, full of braking bumps. people are complaining about it, it's got noticeably worse in the last year, and riders have started riding around the sides of the section – it's now 3metres wide and getting wider.

leaving it alone is not an option.

fixing it will take 3 guys one day. that's about £300 to fix up a short section of trail. you wouldn't need to spend this money if 10mins more thought had gone into the trail from the start…

I see your points ahwiles, but a berm is a tricky feature imo- there's a huge disparity between the speed carried into one by a good rider, and a novice. I don't see much point in having a berm except in a section where you can carry a good speed, but some people will find the ride intimidating and want to slow down dramatically for the turn- look at a section of multiple berms, and nearly all the bumps are before the first.

I quite like them, they make individual berms stand out more, otherwise they'd all just get riden the same.

the trail was designed by an idiot.

Build your own? He/she isn't forcing you to ride theirs?

ok, i'll nip out this evening and build a nice-n-flowy, official, way-marked, 25k singletrack loop around Whinlatter.

isser nice idea…

I'll help you, no problem but you would owe be a beer or two…. 😀

Not as annoying as the guy who runs the bike hire there…

? Explain ? Only good hire guy I have ever met is Rik at Drumlanrigg when we hired kit for non mtb mates. Hire guys seem to dislike mtbers that actually know what they want and know what they are talking about.

Braking bumps (in my mind) are the product of folks braking hard into a section of trail (be it a berm or whatever) and the resulting "corrugation" of the trail surface due to erosion. They aren't a designed thing. I think the folks talking about the diddy triple or whatever it is are discussing a "bad" feature, not braking bumps.

BB's are the result of a number of factors either occuring individually or more often, IMO, as a combination. Some of these factors are within the control of various parties; trail designers, builders and riders.

E.g.

Even with the most perfect trail, someone going to fast and braking hard (subjective) into a feature, typically a berm or corner will start / exacerbate / make massive BB's.

or

A trail which flips "character" between sections that encourage speed and then tight, slow speed features / turns is likley to exacerbate the forming of BBs.

or

If a trail builders doesn't armour (say rock slabs or really well compacted surfacing) on the approach into a feature where riders are likley to be braking hard then this makes it more vulnerable to BB formation.

To lay it all at a designers door is unfair and incorrect.

Also, living in the real world of trail design and building, life is full of compromises be they restrictions on space, materials, cash, rioder skills etc.

AHwiles seems to assume as well that given perfect trail design this would solve all BB issues. IMO this would only occur if you also had perfect (not necesssarily highly skilled, just perfectly competent) riders.

And back in the real world …… 😉

Tim, building fast / slow, tight / open, good / bad trails in Yorkshire with SingletrAction for a few years 😎

Design? It's the countryside. It evolves. Ride what it throws at you.

stumpynya12 – hired some bikes to some novice mates who came out biking for my 30th: was generally off-putting ('this bike is worth £800 so you'd better not break it' etc), then gave one of them a bike with a front mech that wasn't tightened up properly and span round on the frame fouling the tyre, then was unapologetic when she took it back (I wasn't with her then or I could have sorted it). He also threatened to charge her if she was more than 10 minutes late back with the bike (despite her having wasted loads of time due to the bike not being maintained properly).