[Closed] Bodging Hydros onto drops

some systems dont like the resevoir tipped up at funny angles?

Won't it be really nasty riding in the hoods?

EDIT: and a bit worrying if you've machined the clamps out?

When I bleed my deores, I rotate the reservoir until it's horizontal, then take the top off. Will that still be possible on midge bars?

I don't like the sound of a machined out clamp - how much material is needed to be removed?

How about the cable to hydro conversions like on this thread
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/drop-bars-and-hydraulic-disk-brakes

why on earth would you want to?

The king of Sweden has some

why on earth would you want to?

Erm drop bars off road but with good brakes ? Other than bb7 road that is

Yeah machining would weaken the typically cast type clamp. Looking at again removing the entire clamp and ataching your own 'strap type' clamp would do the trick.

I'll be using Midge bars, and they throw the lever out at an angle, making the cheapo Deore body pretty comfortable to hold onto. Plus they'd have a bit of bar tape around them.
I'm taking them into my mates engineering workshop for his asessment Wednesday, the guys done loads of mods from making and welding on disc mounts to building complete frames.

BTW it's to go onto a Croix De Fer build, and bleeding isn't a job you do that often really.

This is the puppy in question.
[img] [/img]

Teh other thing to watch is where the outlet from the reservoir into the master cylinder would end up - would it suck air in?

I'm not quite sure what you mean there TJ, but they only be at the same angle as for example they'd be on some Jones bars. This idea would have no hope on normal drops.
The side you can't see already has a tapped hole in the body itself.
First thoughts are to remove the entire clamp and fit a stainless strap.

Why would you want drop bars offroad anyway, does it make you more aero or just more niche?

One word:

Avid BB7 or 5

That's 4 words!

The resovoir ( the bit you put the fluid in) has a drilling into the master cylinder ( the bit with the piston in) the drilling has to remain below the level of the fluid at all times or it will draw air into the system( as even with the diaphragm its almost impossible not to get a tiny bit of air in the reservoir

this is why if you pull the lever with the bike upside down the brake goes spongy sometimes

Sounds like the angles you have will be OK tho

I am not going to comment apart from please put pics up when / if you work it out, I am quite fascinated by how it will look.

One I don't want flat bars on a disc only crosser, and two...yes BB7s would be my first choice of cable discs.

But I'm thinking I'll want to brake from the drops - mostly - and this would put the levers just at the right spot.

[img] [/img]

using magura julies on midge bars. Will take some pics tomoro

You'll need to spread the clamp from 22.2 to 23.8 dia...5mm circ. And accommodate the curve, bit of filing needed.

I like bodge but with the price of avids on eBay makes it a daft idea - v difficult to get right and always a compromise even if you manage it.

My recent bodge ideas have been more sensible but I've gotten a right slagging from many Inc. TJ for them.

How about mounting them on the lowest / furthest back section of the bar with the lever sticking back into the normal brake lever zone?

I've seen normal road brakes mounted that way on chopped bars.

It would sort the drawing air in problem, but would it put the brake lever in reach?

Hmmm, thing is I want the best braking when I'm into the drops. I've gaffer taped them into place 😐 and I can use one finger to brake from the drops and from what would be the hood area, but in the drops I can get full coverage.

This build isn't out to win any awards for good looks, I just want a build that reflects my riding which is long and only mildly technical xc rides. I felt totally overbiked with an MTB.

I like the idea. I've been eyeing off hydraulic levers for ages to see if one can be modified for dropbar use. Reaming 0.5mm out of the mount is unlikely to cause a problem IMO.

I'm using BB7s on 2 dropbar bikes. The curves introduced by making the cable go through tight curves to conform to the bar reduces the brake performance. I have one set using old fashioned levers where the cables come out the top, and they feel much better than those with the aero levers.

I've got a set of Magura HS77s dropbar hydraulic levers and considered trying to modify them to work with a disk, oldgit's idea sounds more feasible.

Find a sleeve similar diameter/thickness and fettle that first.I just picture you drilling it out and finding that to get around the bends on those bars,you will have to take more and more out.. leaving something you didnt expect! The first crash could see all your hard work end in tears.Maybe even the tightening of the clamp onto the bars could pop it before the first ride,who knows.

I would find an old lever and take it from there.be safe!

Buy some Hydros with a split clamp?

Can't say I have any problems using BB7s though - even on "modern" STIs

I've got a set of Magura HS77s dropbar hydraulic levers and considered trying to modify them to work with a disk, oldgit's idea sounds more feasible.

WANT!

andrewh - Member
'I've got a set of Magura HS77s dropbar hydraulic levers and considered trying to modify them to work with a disk, oldgit's idea sounds more feasible.'
WANT!

I've got a set of HS66s too 🙂

Oldgit, what are you going to do about your gear change if you do this?

Must have been listed between hen's teeth and rocking horse manure.

Oldgit, what are you going to do about your gear change if you do this?

I'm using bar end shifters anyway. Again for trail riding I don't make that many changes, and they fall in place nicely on Midges.

oldgit - Member
I'm using bar end shifters anyway. Again for trail riding I don't make that many changes, and they fall in place nicely on Midges.

I've been using Versa levers with my BB7s - I'm finding them a bit imprecise, but I'm going to play around with the cable routing etc before blaming them.

I wonder if this mod would be better done with a split clamp lever.

So you're over-biked on a mtb, but under-braked on a X bike with Avid discs?
🙄

edit rubish

This is one possibility I had for a hydraulic on drop bars. The clamp would have to be remade.

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5222/5615329867_559bbe4753_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5222/5615329867_559bbe4753_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5308/5615911548_0fbc5d0935_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5308/5615911548_0fbc5d0935_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

doof_doof - Member
So you're over-biked on a mtb, but under-braked on a X bike with Avid discs?

I'd just go with flats and bar ends...

Ongoing issue isn't it? Not solved by swapping bars or bikes or anything else. I want hydo's on drops as well. My solution was going to be clamp split clamp hydro levers onto the centre of my drop bars just like the cx top lever thingies. Run a cable from my STi brakes under the tpe, through a stop and pull the brake lever near the pivot point. Seen this once on the web but can't fnd the pic now. Yet to find split clamp hydros, that don't have the hoses running in line with the vers and at a decent price.
I did wonder if Magura rim brake levers which are less bulky, would power a hydro disc but doubt it.
Come on, we will solve this before Shimano do.

Matt hope and formula have split clamp and you can adjust angle of hose. I thought of just your method with cable stops from sjs but haven't gotten around to it just yet as lost my mojo lol

Sorry OP but I bet if you do make this then it won't be in your bike for more than a few weeks, it's gonna be really uncomfortableif you sit on the tops and I imagine you'll have issues with the clamp, it will also look pish!

epicyclo - Member
I'm using BB7s on 2 dropbar bikes. The curves introduced by making the cable go through tight curves to conform to the bar reduces the brake performance.

I'm using BB5s and 7s on 3 drop-bar bikes, gear cable inners work better.

Not sure I understand your comment.
Over-biked? How did you come to that conclusion?.

Um, cos that's what the OP said.

This build isn't out to win any awards for good looks, I just want a build that reflects my riding which is long and only mildly technical xc rides. I felt totally overbiked with an MTB.

Some people just favour the feel of hydros - me for instance

and whats wrong with having a play and a bit of 'invention'

You could reshape/use an alternative lever blade to get the lever where it is required if the angle of the body throws it out at a weird angle

I'm not concerned about riding on the hoods, with my crosser I tend to ride on the tops and drops. Midges don't lend themselves well to riding on the hoods anyway
It may look a bit gash, but I'll be taping up to and past the levers.

As I said I've nothing against BB7s, but I'd much rather have hydros if this'll work.

I took them the the engineers, and he can remove most of the clamp and fit a strap type clamp using shim metal. That means it'll sit hidden under the tape. And it could be mounted on the more awkward sections of the bar.

TJ seen the little breather hole, that'll still be free to work the angle I'll be setting them at isn't far off the flat.

You could probably bodge a hood over the reservoir if you cared 😉

I've done it. Got some old Hayes 9 carbon brakes with split clamps, ground out the clamps to fit the bars and fitted them to the bike with long enough hoses (as on old, pre-aero-lever road bikes) that if there were any air bubbles in there, they'd stay above the reservior and it didn't cause any problems.

The position of the levers left no usable hood area so I built them up with Sugru and taped over the top of them. Looks pretty shonky but they work and it's not given me any problems in the little use it's had so far.

Sometimes messing about with stuff is the best way to find out and I got to use a brilliant little air powered grinding tool I borrowed from my motor mechanic mate.

I'd second the Magura HS66/77 if you can find some. I've got a set of HS66 on my tandem because I hated the amount of cable stretch on the back brake. They're really comfortable to ride on - dunno what I'd do if I broke one now. I'm just using the normal maggy rim brakes though, so can't comment on compatibility with disc calipers.

Failing that, there was/is somebody making remote master cylinders that mounted on the stem and were controlled by normal levers with a short run of cable. They were quite tidy and apparently worked well.

Rob

Seems quite a few folk are doing it already. Like I said not pretty, but you're going to get great braking in the drops.
Been looking at this....
[img] [/img]

I've reamed out the clamps on Magura HS 33 (mtb rim brakes) to fit road bars. You need a spacer / washer that will fit in the clamp slot and then tighten up the clamp screw with it in place (so the existing bar hole is held in a prefect circle and the clamp / slot is done up tight so things don't flex or judder).

I then used an expanding reamer by hand to gradually enlarge the hole. Looks like there is plenty of meat to go at in your levers so it should work OK.

Forget about the old magura road levers - they are a completely different design (closed volume of oil) and will not work with most hydro discs (with expansion reservoir). Google it and you'll find Maguras views on (not) trying this. They are also not made anymore and rarer than a rare thing - the resurgence in cross bikes means they go for crazy money when they occasionally appear on Ebay.

cynic-al - Member
...I'm using BB5s and 7s on 3 drop-bar bikes, gear cable inners work better.

I thought of that but was too chicken to try it 🙂 It's encouraging to know it works ok - what life are you getting out of the inners?

As for the HS66 & 77 levers, adapting them to a disc isn't impossible, but a disc calliper would likely have a far higher heat buildup than the rim brakes.

I suspect a dropbar hydraulic lever isn't far away now that discs are ok on cx bikes.

doof_doof - Member
'Over-biked?...
Um, cos that's what the OP said.

Ah, sorry doof_doof, thought you were referring to my post and was puzzled.

It was a Planet X Uncle John that had the MTB hydraulic discs with a cable running from the STI to a stop on the handlebars, and then the inner cable attached to the MTB brake lever.
There is a photo of them here, but can't find the description on the PX web site http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/readers-rides/your-ride/q/845101529_ps-ferguson_aunt-sally

Someone should make a cable activated hydraulic reservoir and piston. Mounted on the bars, you could have a really short cable run then the rest as hydro. That way you could use any levers you like including road STIs.

Thinking about it, you could probably dismantle a lever to provide the guts, even leave the clamp on to facilitate mounting.

Looks like Hope make the very thing you want (presumably for CX disc brake use). Scroll down this thread for a picture

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=128156

Sachs once made the reverse of this - an mtb hydraulic lever and hose that actuated a piston and stub of cable to use with canti brakes!

Could you just chop the clamp off, drill it out and use std STI clamp bands?

[img] [/img]

Could you just chop the clamp off, drill it out and use std STI clamp bands?

I'll look at that, those things work by drawing the lever body against the bars

Thats the pic.
Whats been holding me up is finding some hydro brakes cheap. The version in the retrobike link takes up as much bar space but doesn't give the bar top brakes. I'm not desperate for those as i took them off my CX bike but they might as well be used.
By using a cable to pull the hydro's you can use STI's. Well Ergo's in my case which don't seem to have the pull of STI

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/5615738723_45787cafa2.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/5615738723_45787cafa2.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/61712157@N02/5615738723/ ]29er midge 1[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/61712157@N02/ ]robertjohnkay[/url], on Flickr

epicyclo - Member

I thought of that but was too chicken to try it It's encouraging to know it works ok - what life are you getting out of the inners?

They've lasted several re-builds and years of being hung-up.

That is neat solution on retrobike mollifying a set of hopes to take cables
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132792

they all look goppingly aweful and i repeat my quwestion why would you want that on your cx bike??? no one in the profesional world of cx uses them. just why?

no one in the profesional world of cx uses them.

That's because the UCI always banned disc for CX use till now. I can't see a problem with Oldgit trying it, that's how things get invented isn't it?

alex222 - Member
they all look goppingly aweful and i repeat my quwestion why would you want that on your cx bike?...

Better braking comes to mind....

Looks are irrelevant, I don't think oldgit is concerned about making a fashion statement.

The professionals would be using rod brakes if that's what their sponsors fitted. Racing doesn't necessarily improve the breed, in fact in cycling, the racing bodies actively restrict innovation.

Certainly from a 29er POV it is an interesting project.

they all look goppingly aweful and i repeat my quwestion why would you want that on your cx bike??? no one in the profesional world of cx uses them. just why?

Well first of all I wouldn't put them on my race crosser. But a season of racing the crosser and using it instead of a mountainbike has cost me five rims.
So I'm building a trail going crosser (Croix De Fer) I would have put BB7s on it, but I have a set of cheap Deore hydros kicking about and I'd sacrifice the looks for hydros advantages. I'm assuming they'll work well from the drops on decents and techy stuff, and need less tuning than cables.
Though a quick try out has proved you can get good one finger braking from the tops.
Heres a quick fit up I've just done. They required a little filling, though my bars have a layer of white paint on them which doesn't help. The silver tape was out of the garage bin?
[img] [/img]

This is the type of thing I was thinking of http://www.flickr.com/photos/phennec/5537166559/

I think various people made similar devices. Looks like you've got it working OKish now though.

Rob

Just to throw another idea into the discussion
Anyone remember the Mountain Cycle 'semi-hydraulics' from abot 20 years ago? Were they any good?

Good to see some others trying to mod there hydros been running mine for about three years.
My biggest worry was the inlet port in the resevoir drawing in air as the fluid level dropped due to pad wear etc
This only happened once when the fluid boiled up but I think most brakes would have gone to the bar .
I spent many hours of messing around to get a good set up the only thing to remember is do the testing before hitting the big hills I used mine in the alps 🙂
[IMG] [/IMG]
not the best pic

epicyclo - Member
...I've been using Versa levers with my BB7s - I'm finding them a bit imprecise...

Seeing as I bagged these, I'd better admit my mistake.

The cable exits vertically and the chain was occasionally touching the cable mount. Didn't spot how close it was until I put my reading glasses on. 😳

New [url= http://www.cxmagazine.com/trp-parabox-hydraulic-disc-brake-system-for-cyclocross-first-ride ]TRP brakes Parabox[/url]

[img] [/img]

Hydros do feel different to/nicer than cables, but IME BB5/7s give you enough power, the traction is so shit on narrow tyres and hardpack you lose grip pretty quickly anyway.

Doesn't look too bad oldgit, I'll order a hat from the fixed-price menu please.

EDIT: TRP thingmy looks good, I predict there'll be no demand in around 18 months as shimano et all prodiuce decent cx disc brakes, mind you they'l circulate on eBay for the bodgers 😛

The Parabox will come complete kit with TRP rotors, calipers, pre-bled hydraulic brake lines and the master cylinder, is expected to retail for $400-500 and will weigh 450 grams.

I wonder what the add-on box will be on its own...

Interesting stuff, Sam - thanks for posting that 🙂

Hmm that retrobike bodge looks clever too - could be a good way to use the hydrol levers as those cx levers on the tops of the bars as well.

Taking it further. If you don't like your cable discs but want to be cheap like me why not do the same with V brake flat bar levers which give more pull than drop levers.
I'm still looking for some hydro brakes.Hopes I suppose.
I tried the retro bike way on the bench and it works. The Avid hydros took up a lot of space though.

[IMG] [/IMG]

Where da cables gone hum?

That TRP thingy doesn't profess to being that powerful though.

TBH all I'm seeking is zero rim wear, and decent braking on longer off road decents.

Done both now.

Next minor tricky issue is exiting the bar end cables because of the tiny short section in the drop.
That's it for a bit, not getting it built up for months yet.

Looks like hope might be coming to the party with a proper cable/hydro convertor...

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/2011/04/hope-technology-a-photo-tour/ ]STW visit HOPE[/url]

(i actually have one of the original Hope convertors in a box somewhere, when i get a chance its going on my Fargo :0)

Seeing this reminded me of the Magura HS11 levers I've had waiting to be bodged onto my Midge bars for a while.

So today I did this:

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5021/5621753051_3f986515ed_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5021/5621753051_3f986515ed_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

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[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5063/5622346248_5bf1857774_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5063/5622346248_5bf1857774_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/5622348132_e9ae71a7c3_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/5622348132_e9ae71a7c3_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Nice idea but stop being so silly. Pair of BB5's will do the job nicely.

Very cheap. Work really well, easy to adjust.

The frame & fork don't have disc mounts, so BB5s would be no use at all!

I also happen to have copious amounts of Magura spares - I run them on 3 bikes - so I had all the bits I needed already.

I am truly eating my hat here, good work guys.

Good work on the Maguras, but did you employ a three year old to wrap your bar tape? 🙂

Neat.

If you want to put on discs you could try a set of these from
[b][url= http://www.choppersus.com/store/product/307/Disc-Brake-Bracket-Billet/ ]Choppers US[/url]
[/b]

[img] [/img]

Good work on the Maguras, but did you employ a three year old to wrap your bar tape

Ya-boo-sucks to you! 😛

The main bit of tape is neat as - but I tried adding an extra bit over the clamps from what was left over, and you're right it did look a tad messy 😳 so now removed!

Getting there, bar end shifters added and the cable exit is bob on.

Just need some 700c Disc wheels. And decide if to go MTB 3x9 or road double with MTB 9 speed cassette and mech.

After years of trying to make my MTBs road like, I'm finally making a road'ish bike MTB like 😕

Oldgit I was in bob jacksons last week looking at getting a road swaying toward mtb frameset knocked up with mtb stays but for 700cc with clearance for 2.2 29er tyres if wanted but with all rack, guard mounts like a tourer with rolhoff dropouts and disc mounts drop bar angles , maybe s and s couplings too oh and seat stay coupling for belt drive sillyness too.

Just to decide now as It's that or a motorbike (or a singular peregrine ;))