Several, if not many, moons ago there was a school of thought that said "Thou shalt not purchase/maketh a wheel with black spokes for the Lord hath said they are weak and may snappeth". Since I'm in the market for a new set of decent, lightish (~1700g) wheels, I was wondering if it's still the case. 
Bike Forum
Black spokes.........still a no, no?
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Posted 10 months ago #
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A particular brand/batch of them were bad - tended to be on wheels that came with bikes. In general they're fine.
Posted 10 months ago # -
No, that was years ago. They used to use some process to make them which resulted in them being slightly more brittle than silver (can't remember what offhand), but black spokes now are fine - no stronger or weaker than equivalent silver ones.
Double butted spokes are stronger than plain guage though (regardless of colour!)
Posted 10 months ago # -
CL I think you mean DB have a higher fatigue life?
Posted 10 months ago # -
Double butted spokes are
strongerlighter than plain guage though (regardless of colour!)FTFY
Posted 10 months ago # -
Got black spokes on my wheels that have had the best part of four years putting up with my lardy ass. Trued the rear one once and that's it.
Posted 10 months ago # -
I've got wheels with black spokes that are still perfectly fine that I started using in the last century.
You'll be OK.Posted 10 months ago # -
You'll be fine, my 'black spoked' wheels are running true after at least 4 years of abuse and counting....
Posted 10 months ago # -
Double butted spokes are
strongermore elastic, and therefore build a tougher wheel than plain guage though (regardless of colour!)
Double butted are stretchier so stretch and contract with the rim when it flexes over bumps. This in turn keeps the nipples under tension and means they are less likely to change tension over time, preventing uneven tensions which would eventually result in broken spokes.
[/friday morning pedantry]
Many happy years running black spokes, no problems with them.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Spokist
I haven't had any problems with spokes of any colour, black, white or silver.
It was pretty much an urban myth that coloured spokes were weaker, a couple of shops helped spread it by refusing to building wheels with coloured spokes and giving no proof other than their 'experiences' with them
Posted 10 months ago # -
Double butted spokes are more elastic, and therefore build a
tougherflexier wheel than plain guage though (regardless of colour!)FIFY
Posted 10 months ago # -
What about nipples? I know exciting coloured nipples are a no-no, but can you get black ones that won't shear if you upset them a bit?
Posted 10 months ago # -
Double butted are stretchier so stretch and contract with the rim when it flexes over bumps. This in turn keeps the nipples under tension and means they are less likely to change tension over time, preventing uneven tensions which would eventually result in broken spokes.
Mince! Never ceases to amaze me how folk believe stuff more the more complicated it is.
DB spokes flex a bit more and this is in the middle of the spoke rather than at the bend, this (apparently) lessens breakages.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Might seem complicated to you Al, but to my mighty engineering brain it seems perfectly logical.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Bought a Gary Fisher HKEK in 2005, enough black spokes broke within the first few months that I was given new wheels (with black spokes) under warranty, those are still running the same spokes as when I was given them and get regular use.
I bought some Hope Hoops about 18months ago with black DB spokes and they've never needed truing or any spokes replaced (despite coming with a few spares).
Make of that what you will
Posted 10 months ago # -
I know exciting coloured nipples are a no-no, but can you get black ones that won't shear if you upset them a bit?
You can get black brass nipples yes. I've got a bag, which I don't really want if you're interested?
Posted 10 months ago # -
Al was right earlier, butted spokes simply have a higher fatigue life in the same way a butted frame should have better fatigue resistance - by directing the stress away from the j-bend / nipple areas. Since a spoke goes through a tension cycle every time the wheel goes round, fatiigue life's pretty important )
If you get good quality spokes the colour won't make any difference.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Snowflake lacing with pink alloy nipples is in for the current season dont you know!
Posted 10 months ago # -
pretty sure that the Jobst Brandt book thinks DB spoked wheels are stronger...
not TB though
Posted 10 months ago # -
13FM, you want to BATTLE
I didn't do engineering at uni cos it was too easy, I did the 2 hardest degrees I could find.
How do nipples change tension?
Posted 10 months ago # -
SPOKE GEEK BATTLE!!!!!
Poor terminology on my part, I was taught that when the rim flexes under load, the tension on the spoke could (briefly) be decreased enough that the nipple could then loosen, causing a loss of tension in the spoke (not the nipple like I said). Obviously this would be over time, not all at once.
This is why you would use a locking agent (loctite/linseed oil/prolock nipples etc.) which prevents the nipple loosening over time. Alternatively build the wheel nice and tight, preferrably with slightly elastic spokes to preload the nipples, and this process wouldn't occur.
If this theory is 'mince' then why do spoke nipples loosen over time?
Posted 10 months ago # -
on a perfectly built wheel no loosening occurs.
Otherwise it's bedding in & impacts microscopically lengthening the spokes
Posted 10 months ago # -
How hard are you pedalling/hitting rocks to stretch work hardened steel spokes??
Posted 10 months ago # -
As hard as you are if you are flexing the rim enough to overcome their tension and stretch
Posted 10 months ago # -
I've only ever had wheels with black spokes on my MTB's and not broken/bent one yet (cue a shower of snapped spokes next time out).
I just bunged new wheels on my road bike and they have dark grey bladed spokes, wonder where that sits
Posted 10 months ago # -
Dark grey? Like Mavic R-Sys:
Posted 10 months ago # -
As hard as you are if you are flexing the rim enough to overcome their tension and stretch
****, we're beefcake, we should form our own team
Posted 10 months ago # -
Thanks for the engineering lesson, folks!
Now recommend me some new wheels, circa 300 notes/1700g, that'll be OK for tyres up to 2.35".........with or without black spokes/alloy nipples.
Posted 10 months ago # -
You cant beat the way stainless spokes look after a good wash, so for me stainless every time.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Toxicsocks: Hope Hoops on Crests, 1585g.
Posted 10 months ago #
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