Bingley Bash in danger of losing a Bridleway. your help required!

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Bingley Bash in danger of losing a Bridleway. your help required!

20 posts & 11 voices | Started 10 months ago by Mugboo | Latest reply from schnor

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Mugboo - Member

There are plans afoot to downgrade a BW on the ever popular Bingley Bash.

Bradford Council/Rights of way team don't want it to happen. Bikers and Horse riders don't want it to happen but its going to happen all the same.

The landowner is downgrading it on historical data or lack of, so we need to prove otherwise. But while we are trying to sort this out a mass emailing of your local MP can do no harm
Surely there are two kinds of history, ancient history and recent history.

The Bingley Bash has been ridden since mountain bikes were invented by people far and wide...

More info here

http://singletraction.frankencrank.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3599

Find your MP

http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/

Cheers Jason

Posted 10 months ago #
Dave - Moderator

I would point out that, as this is an order to change the status of
the route recorded on the Definitive Map based on historic evidence,
the only matters which can be taken into account are those which
relate to the evidence for or against the status of the route at the
date the first Definitive Map for the area was produced - i.e.
September 1952. This would include any evidence which demonstrates
that bridleway rights had been dedicated or established by users
before that date.

That's going to be the tricky bit, unless the bridleways and byways trust can come up with something.

Posted 10 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

sometimes, the law is an ass.

Posted 10 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

would the rough stuff fellowship folk have any record of using it befoer then? Local history / museums?

Posted 10 months ago #
Dave - Moderator

Inspectors report here: http://www.gos.gov.uk/nestore/docs/transport/rightsofway/902851/cullingworth_insp_rpt

Interesting reading.

Posted 10 months ago #
oldgit - Member

Don't know how to help myself, but recent experience has shown me that there are plenty of people and bodies out there that will do their best to help.

Posted 10 months ago #
Mugboo - Member

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/local/airelocal/9142866.Horse_riders_fight_to_save_Cullingworth_bridleway/

Unite with the Horsey peeps

Posted 10 months ago #
squiff - Member

Wots going on here?

I do the Bingley bash all the time.But looking at the maps and if you do the exstended version of the Bingley bash (the one the Singletrack boys did a while back) it should'nt effect the route, think am right

Posted 10 months ago #
simonfbarnes - Member

we were turned off the footpath from Cullingworth Fields to Haworth road - I wonder if it was the same people ? I was trying to avoid having to ride along that busy road to the West Manywell BW.

Posted 10 months ago #
pennine - Member

The BWs in question are not really part of the Bingley Bash (as such) but do get used by horse & bike riders. The BW1 passes Field Head & Cullingworth Fields farms. One of the farmers is ok with bikes and horses crossing his land. BW2 drops from the layby on the main road above Cross Roads down to the house the BB goes through (often a muddy field for indentification).
As Dave mentions above there is a 'difficulty' after 1952

Posted 10 months ago #
simonfbarnes - Member

That 'was' a FP Simon

yes I know, but on the ground it's actually a wide roadway and it would have avoided the usual speeding cars on Haworth Road!

Posted 10 months ago #
telegraphandargus - Member

Hi,

I have a written an article about this for the Telegraph and Argus. I think the link is pasted in to one of the posts. If not, here it is again:

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/9142866.Horse_riders_fight_to_save_Cullingworth_bridleway/

I would like to get in touch with any cyclists who are affected by the potential closure and who would be happy to speak about it for the paper.

I would be interested to know if anyone is organising a campaign about it.

A public inquiry will be held if there is enough objection to the plan so it's important to raise awareness now.

My email address is: kathryn.bradley@telegraphandargus.co.uk or I can be contacted on 01535 606611.

Kathryn

Posted 10 months ago #
Mugboo - Member

I tried phoning St Ives Equestrian centre and leaving a message following your article.

It seems like horse riders and mountain bikers need to unite over this. Who is coordinating the horse riders protest?

Posted 10 months ago #
schnor - Member

Inspectors reports always give me brain drain, even more so on a friday evening.

It looks like the inspector had a problem with the parish designation of "Cart Road Footpath" and the lack of user evidence, which TBH, is to be expected seeing as in the 60 years since then, most users would have died or moved away.

I think I remember a similar case somehow being based instead not on proving use before the relevant date, but on the applicant having to prove the contrary since (i.e. the landowner had to show he stopped X users a year for Y years), which seemed a more sensible approach.

Shout if you'd like me to find it, and good luck.

Posted 10 months ago #
Mugboo - Member

Schnoor, if you can find that would be lovely

Posted 10 months ago #
Mugboo - Member

Hi,

Hope its ok to email you directly, if I replied to the bingley bash
thread itself you may not notice it. As I understand them, the
following are relevant to your case (even though it's a downgrade as
opposed to the creation of a new RoW) as it still regards length of
use and user evidence.

They are both summarised here: -

http://www.prowl-iom.org/lawlords.html

'Godmanchester' info is: -
Info - http://www.propertyweek.com/professional/case-news/3091347.article
Ruling - http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200607/ldjudgmt/jd070620/godman-1.htm

But the most useful case would be 'Dorset'. This in a nutshell
overturns having to prove 20 years use, but instead for "sufficient
evidence that there was no intention during that period to dedicate
such way." under common law instead. AFAIK there has been no change to
this, but can't find any new cases which use it as a defence (high
court cases only happen once every 5 years or so, and most only get to
magistrates court / public enquiries).

Info - http://www.ramblers75.org.uk/pdf/Dorset-Case-Victory.pdf
Ruling - http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/1406.html

Hope this info is useful,

schnor

Posted 9 months ago #
mrelectric - Member

The CTC is continuing to pursue this, but I am new to this particular case and was not aware of the August date. Does anyone have an update please?

David

Posted 9 months ago #
Mugboo - Member

I have passed on all the information to the RoW team and the T&A but have no idea how it's working out

Posted 9 months ago #
Mugboo - Member

It sounds like the local Counciller Mike Ellis has now got involved. There were 56 official complaints (which is a local record for this kind of issue). It is now going to a public enquiry.

If you haven't already made a complaint then please do while they are on the back foot.

http://www.bradford.gov.uk/asp/councillors/details.asp?id=306

Posted 9 months ago #
schnor - Member

"A public inquiry is to be held over plans to downgrade a well-used bridleway to a footpath after more than 50 objections were made."

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/9221677.Plan_to_ban_horses_and_cycles_from_bridleway_goes_to_inquiry/

p.s. feel the love

MontyLeMar says...
11:41am Tue 30 Aug 11
I'm all for kicking the bikers off, a more ignorant and selfish bunch of individuals I have yet to meet”

Posted 8 months ago #