just tell the shop to write on the form a load of safety equipment that comes to the total amount of the “secret thing” your trying to buy then when you have your voucher take what you want… every bodies happy

This is the funniest thread I’ve read for ages. I hope you don’t get into bother over what might have seemed like a good idea at the time.

I also hope that your directors aren’t too busy posting on bike forums in the middle of the working day to realise that the company gains from the national insurance payment as well as the employee. The employer will still gain money whatever you spend the voucher on. Still, if it massages your own ego to talk like a ruthless business tycoon on a bike forum then more power to your typing fingers. However your comments might be better received on a ruthless business tycoon forum.

The only person who stands to loose from abuse of the scheme is the tax man and as with all these schemes it will get binned as soon as any misuse is identified. Stabilisers? there’s always someone who spoils it for everyone else.

On a practical note I don,t think the scheme really scales to lower cost (kids?) bikes because the payment that you make at the end of the term to make the bike yours will nearly negate the tax savings.

See, if we were Italians, with their casual attitude to tax and government, no one would bat an eyelid.

Its so uniquely english that without being able to “identify any actual target” that HR is suspicious. Does it really, actually matter in the long run who gets the bike from the earner in the family. The end result is 1 less fat kid, 1 more happy employee and one more bike shop with a sale.

Whilst I applaud the intend and scope of the scheme (I have a bike myself) does the original posters position actually, in the scheme of things, where there is still no harm, only benefits all round, matter one jot?

I’m with J68, some of you (AP)need to lighten up and before you think of lecturing me AP, don’t I have been there and done it, in the final analysis if your business has so little cash flow that a kids bike might cause you pain then you might want to spend less time on STW forums.

I can see AP’s point, that he’s stumping up the cash to start with, but realistically is there any differecne between the emplyee taking a kids bike, and taking a bike for himself, in so far as the company is concerned? No – the result is the same, the scheme is still operative and the cost the same. No one looses. Its not quite a “victimless crime”, as I struggle to see where the “crime” is.

I don’t use my bike for 50% of journeys. If I did, I’d have no bloody energy at work! And it rains far too often, and we have no shower or changing facilties.

It would be pretty annoying if the scheme was stopped because it was being abused. Personally I don’t see a problem, any new bike is a good bike!

But you haven’t actually done anything wrong you just tried to and failed.

So, If I try to steal your bike, and fail, no harm done, eh? If I try to steal from a shop, but get caught, they should just let me go, eh?

C2W is to try to encourage more people to commute to work by bike. Which is a great thing. If people continue to abuse it (as I’m sure many have), then it’s possible the scheme may be scrapped. Which will penalise those genuinely wanting to get a bike to ride to work.

I wonder, if this was ‘I tried to claim Dole, even though I work’, it would be getting such light treatment?

No one looses. Its not quite a “victimless crime”, as I struggle to see where the “crime” is.

Is it not some form of tax evasion? Therefore fraudulent?

A mate of mine has been trying to get a bike for the C2W scheme. To actually ride to work. His current bike is fecked, and would cost almost as much as a new bike. He has to wait, as his employers only allow so many C2W applications every so often, and are threatening to scrap the scheme, as there’s been too much abuse (bikes appearing on ebay, etc).

Not quite victimless. TBH, the OP may consider themselves lucky to still have a job. I’ve known people to be sacked, for less.

I think if you’re going to abuse the system you have to do it so that your company won’t know – if the company sees someone trying to buy a kids bike on the scheme then they have to stop it. Many companies don’t offer the scheme so it’s best not to cause yours problems if they do – I doubt the tax man would find out but that isn’t the point.

Unfortunately it’s the piss takers who get these schemes closed down 🙁

Tw guy in my company have just bought MTBs on the scheme. They both live in a village about 8 miles from work and it’s highly likely that the bikes will be used for fun much more than commuting. So what? My company has two fitter employees, and I’ve got two more people to ride with!

As the Animator comes with stabalisers fitted as standard, why the need to mention them on a quotation? HR wouldn’t know that it’s a kids bike.
Kinda agree with Duckman’s comment too – why not just buy the bike – you won’t save very much Cycleschemeing a £110 bike.

Victimless? The scheme will have a proportion of money set aside for it to offset the “lost” tax. No idea what it must cost – £10-20M a year? If half the bikes bought on it are used by those just looking for a cheap leisure bike who could actually afford to buy it properly, that £10M of taxpayers money (yes, yours and mine) that is being used inappropriately. I appreciate that this is a drop in the ocean compared to the billions spent on keeping the banks alive, fat cat tax dodges & benefit fraud but its still £10m that could have been spent on something worthwhile.

As an aside – some people drive to work via their child’s school to drop them off. It would seem legit to me (and I don’t even have kids), if you could buy a bike for the sprog as well as yourself so you could do the same journey but on bikes.

As has been said, whilst some may consider this sort of fraud a victim-less crime such abuse of the system could lead to its demise.

Ooh a fraud case, we had a talk with a lady who works in the NHS fraud department came originally from TAX fraud. She shows the mercy and gave some cracking examples of cases she’d been involved with, the power to cease was also a bit scary.

Victimless? The scheme will have a proportion of money set aside for it to offset the “lost” tax. No idea what it must cost – £10-20M a year? If half the bikes bought on it are used by those just looking for a cheap leisure bike who could actually afford to buy it properly, that £10M of taxpayers money (yes, yours and mine) that is being used inappropriately.

If those people bought leisure bikes and use them, what will be the saving to the tax payer from the health benefits of cycling?

Victimless? The scheme will have a proportion of money set aside for it to offset the “lost” tax. No idea what it must cost – £10-20M a year? If half the bikes bought on it are used by those just looking for a cheap leisure bike who could actually afford to buy it properly, that £10M of taxpayers money (yes, yours and mine) that is being used inappropriately.

If those people bought leisure bikes and use them, what will be the saving to the tax payer from the health benefits of cycling?

Zero I would have thought – The sort of people who are “abusing” the scheme (according to my lbs and adhoc evidence from the various biking forum – although this is a distorted group I admit) are already active, predominantly cyclists. The number of people that fit into the obese or nutritionaly poorly educated (i.e. the people who need targeting) who use this scheme to scam a bike to kick start a new lifestyle are practically zero.

Havng said that, a much better idea would be to just make all bikes under £1K VAT exempt. The saving would be much smaller for every consumer but it would mean that everyone could access it equally and there would be no need to “abuse” the system.

Why oh why didnt you get a friendly LBS to put it down as safety equipment or a set of lights..

The sort of people who are “abusing” the scheme (according to my lbs and adhoc evidence from the various biking forum – although this is a distorted group I admit) are already active, predominantly cyclists. The number of people that fit into the obese or nutritionaly poorly educated (i.e. the people who need targeting) who use this scheme to scam a bike to kick start a new lifestyle are practically zero.

I know a few people at work who have got bikes through the scheme which they will not be riding to work, in order to take up regular (or more regular) recreational cycling.

About half of the people using the scheme at my work were not regular cyclists before the scheme. A reasonable number are not using the bikes to commute on, but simply to get fit. Actually, I wasn’t that fit until I got my first C2W bike, although I was a regular cyclist! I think the scheme is a brilliant one. I’d also agree with the point about making bikes VAT exempt though.

You are just tight, how much does a kids bike cost ????