What works for you?

Currently going through the process of conceptualising a new website, but it seems there’s lots of conflicting ideas on what’s good and bad and why. Personally, I like to find quite a bit of information to read (not just regurgitated guff from the manufacturers website either), but seems most people I’ve chatted to so far are more interested in more pictures and less words! Anyway… You get the idea.

Whose websites work and why in your opinion?

You see I quite like the Epic Cycles website, but most I’ve asked have said it has too much info and not enough flashy pictures! Hey ho.

If you are going to load it with text then don’t simply copy it en masse, generate something unique. That will get you higher up the Google rankings.

With you on that scotroutes. It’s not only lazy, but it says “we don’t really understand what we’re selling” to me personally. A couple of sentences about a product, why it’s good and who it’s aimed at isn’t hard to write to be fair.

Should state I’m not aiming as an online shop (yet anyway), more of an online shop window. I see lots of shops that seem to do exceptionally well in spite of their websites, and some that fail despite having a seemingly all singing, all dancing site!

Should state I’m not aiming as an online shop (yet anyway), more of an online shop window.

In which case I think it needs to focus less on featuring every product you sell and more on what makes the shop a worthwhile ‘human’ experience to visit. It should try and portray that not only do you know bikes/bike stuff and have some in stock but you can make a difference in a personal way and know about your customers and their experiences too. i.e. there are advantages to a bricks and mortar bike shop (even though I’m not convinced there is 😉 )

Enough blurb about the shop to make it enticing and the main brands sold. Information about the local area – make the website somewhere you would go as a local to find out more about riding in the area, events that are on etc.

Each member of staff should have a significant ‘blog’ area explaining what sort of cycling they are into and how they could help you. Each should then have half a dozen ‘favourite’ products that you currently sell that are explained in their own words why they are on the list. Not just bike but multitools, clothing, energy bars etc.

I suppose a current bargains page would also be good.

And links to other cycle related websites you value.

And photos and tales of the daring dos of some of your customers (that are updated regularly so are in season and don’t look like they were last looked at in 2012).

Heavy emphasis on the workshop – that’s your discernible difference to the online boys. Maybe a video interview with the mechanic at work explaining what happens and what he can do – depending on if he is able to string a sentence together and look professional.

And a little bit corporate – the website colour palette and font choices need to reflect the actual shop’s – if you have been on the website and then walk down the street to find the shop it needs to look instantly familiar, and vice versa.

I guess price is (perhaps unfortunately) the great leveller but I also look for:

1) How easy is it to find stuff
2) Product information (eg will it be compatible etc)
3) How easy is it to find delivery and returns info.

A special mention should go to SJS cycles, who I love because of they always seem to have the stuff that other shops don’t.

A special mention should go to SJS cycles, who I love because of they always seem to have the stuff that other shops don’t.

That is a quality of the shop reflected in the website, not of the website. If having loads of unusual stuff is your USP then market on it, if it isn’t you will look daft.

Anyway, Mboy sounds like he isn’t creating an online shop – which is what sjs is these days (with a bricks and mortar strap on). Very different beasts.

Cheap and a search function that actually works.
Why shop here if its cheaper at CRC or woggle

I really don’t understand why you would want an online presence, and then not sell on there.

What annoys me with LBS websites is that they have very limited stock info. I want to know what you have in stock and how much it costs.

Saves me having to

1. Take your and my time up phoning you to ask, and save the whole embarrassing your 30% more than anywhere else

2. Save a wasted journey to your store

Other than that nice pictures showing the shop, maybe a section of what riding you have been up to etc. Oh and a section on workshop prices and turnaround….but of course that’s only going to work if your parts are competitively priced.

A bloke who has set a shop up round my way is on Strava. His photo is an add for his shop. He has a lot of top 5 results on local KOM’s. Very good way to advertise I thought

In terms of a shop-front for an actual bike shop, Charlie the Bikemonger’s takes some beating. Non-corporate feel (starting with the name, obviously) easily navigable categories that aren’t all about the shopping, and the shopping bits (I know it’s not a priority for you) you can enjoyably browse – partly because they carry the amount of stuff you can actually browse, rather than crc levels of 200+ stems, where it just feels like work.

I think he/they do a great job of making a website feel like a LBS, add that to the fact that they’re good on the phone and emails, good on ordering stuff in and posting stuff out. And if/when you actually drop in, it all feels like you’d expect. All in all, a great job of being a LBS, the fact that they’re not local doesn’t seem to matter much!

What annoys me with LBS websites is that they have very limited stock info. I want to know what you have in stock and how much it costs.

Do you have any sort of concept of the number of staff the likes of Wiggle employ to upload and maintain stock information and content? Even an wee shops worth of stock would be a monumental task – and detrimental rather than positive unless it’s 100% up to date.

What he said – shop window sites are useless.

I don’t care if one of your customers has just ridden round Upper Silesia on your hand built wheels.
I don’t care if you’ve had a nice holiday.
I don’t care if you’ve got a dog.
(Sorry Charlie – it’s a nice dog though).

What’s in stock?
What’s it do?
How much?
When are you open?

What annoys me with LBS websites is that they have very limited stock info. I want to know what you have in stock and how much it costs.

Saves me having to

1. Take your and my time up phoning you to ask, and save the whole embarrassing your 30% more than anywhere else

2. Save a wasted journey to your store
Sounds like you wouldn’t be shopping there anyway and are just searching for the cheapest.

If it’s not for online selling but for selling the shop..
Product listing is probably a waste of time but some things might be worth having up like a service price list, That you offer Fox/Rockshox servicing there and then, drive train upgrade fitted price (XT/X11sp etc. 1x conversions) – LBS here does a lot of specials on this sort of thing or something like an XT Brake deal – Fitted/hoses shortened etc./bled for x
Special/Custom Build pics accompanied by some pics of them in use.
Local trail info to make sure out of towners come and pop in
Opening hours!!!
Specials
Workshop wait times

Basically everything CRC/Wiggle/Germans are not and don’t do, no point in chasing the price people make yourself interesting to those who value the service.

Charlie the Bikemonger’s takes some beating.

I was going to add that.

Also Bikefix is quite good.

And Minx Girl who is an online store but clearly knows her audience and writes assuring, personal blurb which makes her stand out from the crowd – my go to shop for buy for Mrs C.

I don’t care if they think they’re interesting.
I want a bike shop, not a coffee morning.

Custom build ballpark prices and examples are good, as are service costs.

But if you’re going to provide route advice, don’t charge £3 for a photocopied map with some highlighter pen on it.
Makes you look tight.

I don’t care if they think they’re interesting.

I want a bike shop, not a coffee morning.

And I suspect (like me) your go to shopping experience is an online one these days, not a bricks and mortar one. In fact I also suspect you shop on price first and foremost. You are of genuinely no interest to them. You are a tesco/lidl customer walking into an ‘artisan’ delicatessen. Actually I suspect most LBSs would prefer to keep you at arms length – just an argument about price waiting to happen.

As I said earlier, I’m not convinced in the LBS experience any more – it’s a niche product in the cycle enthusiast world for folk that like to have their hair stroked and have no opposable thumbs so are mechanically inept. Their needs are different to mine and as such the website for such a product needs to reflect that. I worked in a windsurf shop in my university days and most of our profit came from a reasonably sized but select group of customers who all thought they were our mates. They weren’t – we just made them feel like that – the shopping experience felt personal. A website for such a business needs to be an extension of the shop experience. But not for me (or you)!

As I said earlier, I’m not convinced in the LBS experience any more – it’s a niche product in the cycle enthusiast world for folk that like to have their hair stroked and have no opposable thumbs so are mechanically inept.

I think the STW view is quite different to the bike world as a whole, seeing it from both sides there are plenty of people who just want their bike sorted or upgraded who are either too busy or not interested, like to have some good advice from somebody who spends their time fixing and working on parts, like being able to pick and and look at stuff and all the rest. Not just mechanically inept lonely numpties….
If you can deliver that then you will have people who value it over price.

We buy virtually nothing off the internet.

I use a shop nearly 20 miles from where I live.
They have great stock, good deals and great advice.

They just don’t feel the need to pretend to be my friends on a meaningless website.
🙂

The shop window websites –
‘Silas is our mechanic. He makes his own soap and rides a Humber’ etc are the internet equivalent of Christmas chain letters.

I use a shop nearly 20 miles from where I live.
They have great stock, good deals and great advice.

In which case you are now a hooked animal and the site is also no relevance to you. They give good advice – and presumably your mobile still has a phone function. With a business the size of a LBS that will still be the best way to get up to date stock information.

What annoys me with LBS websites is that they have very limited stock info. I want to know what you have in stock and how much it costs.

[quote]
Do you have any sort of concept of the number of staff the likes of Wiggle employ to upload and maintain stock information and content? Even an wee shops worth of stock would be a monumental task – any detrimental rather than positive unless it’s 100% up to date.[/quote]

Sorry I disagree. Any shop with a decent integrated epos / accounts system and purchasing controls can do this with minimal effort. When you raise a purchase order / accept delivery additions to stock should go into the system and get recorded in stock. as they get scanned and sold they come out of stock. Otherwise how do they get a cost of sales for accounts without a full stock check and they leave themselves open to fraud and theft.

Or to put it another way If my local one man band model shop who probably has as many individual products as a small lbs can tell me he has only one packet of Peco farm gates in 00 scale in brown which cost less than a fiver then an lbs can tell you it has 2 XT mechs and an ibis mojo.

I don’t need Bike Shops for advice so I shop by price. When I am after something I will research it online and form my opinion of what make/model I want and then find best place to purchase it.
If I was to go to a bike shop I will very likely know more than they do about the thing I am after and they will always be more expensive. Fair enough, I am not a customer a bike shop is ever going to attract.

To the OP, what are you trying to achieve with the website, what customers are you after, how would you measure any success of the website.
Go from your end goal backwards rather than just get opinions of what bike sites people like as they like them for different reasons. For example the key thing to me is that it shows accurate stock levels so I don’t waste my time buying items that are not actually in stock (have to cancel, refund, order somewhere else etc,.)
That is not relevant to what I am guessing you are trying to do.

Sounds like you wouldn’t be shopping there anyway and are just searching for the cheapest.

Well I do that when I purchase anything.

Currently Wiggle is my LBS. I can try things on for size, their website is good.

Do you have any sort of concept of the number of staff the likes of Wiggle employ to upload and maintain stock information and content?

No, and I don’t care. They provide me products I want at a price I want, its up to them how they run their business. I am sure that Wiggle have way more customers than an LBS, so therefore need more staff. And is it really that difficult to get stock control software that keeps live stock levels??

Merlin appears to work, I bet more of their business is online than direct retail. However it is the only LBS I have been prepared to travel 60 miles to visit, because they are competitive!

I really don’t understand why you would want an online presence, and then not sell on there.

I totally disagree, there nothing worse than researching a business (even if it’s just for the address) to find they have no web presence in this day and age. That’s closely followed by those sites that were put up in 2010 with promise of updates/blog, & have been updated once in June 2010 & then nothing (though at least there address is there).
A local LBS has all ther staff profiles online (quite a large staff), & though I do find some of there achievements intimidating, at least I can find there names, which if you don’t uses the place that often, but often enough you ‘should’ know them, is nice.

Or to put it another way If my local one man band model shop who probably has as many individual products as a small lbs can tell me he has only one packet of Peco farm gates in 00 scale in brown which cost less than a fiver then an lbs can tell you it has 2 XT mechs and an ibis mojo.

Does he publish it all online?

Whatever else you do, make sure you include phone numbers (that will actually be answered!), address and a link to Google Maps, indications about parking (both car and bike), and opening hours.

Stock list of the important things. I don’t care if you have the latest XYZ Hillthumper. I come to a shop to buy the things that don’t need research. Have you got pedal washers, 700x 42mm tubes with 60mm valves or whatever people want to buy there and then. I appreciate that this is time and money expensive and thus probably impossible.

Can’t see the point in staff opinions . After all I have yet to see the shop that advises buying something they don’t sell and if your staff only recommend your stock I have to be at best dubious.
Tell me where you are not just some bloody post code.
Tell me that you have a ring to attach my bike lock to. ( some hope . I know of 10 shops in 20 mile and none of them have anyway of locking a bike up other than the street urniture 20 yards away)
Don’t put helmets in with accessories or anywhere else but clothing.
Make sure the contact page is easy to see with a phone number and an email address that isn’t just a link to a contact page. Not all of them can be copied and pasted in my experience.
Publish service costs and exactly what you get and don’t get.

interesting replies

I’m an old fashioned kind of shopper, buy cheap buy twice. I’m not all that bothered about buying the cheapest Hope hub or Reverb dropper post because in a spoilt brat kind of way when I want it “I want it now”

So by the time I’ve looked online I’ve already done my research, I’ve spoke to fellow riders out on the trails, I’ve seen that a right hand remote dropper fits on the left hand side upside down, I’ll no doubt have searched a few forums for more advice, so by the time I get to your online store I need to know when I click the buy button it’s going to arrive sooner rather than having a 3rd party send it to you then you forward it to me.

So info is pretty much redundant on an online store for me, and 9 times out of 10 I’ll phone up a Bike Store and get their opinion. my time off work is very precious and I’m already planning this weekends CYB loop, next months weekend away in Scotland, what I’d like to be doing next year Alls etc,

If something happens this evening on my local loop and I mash my derailleur I need one ASAP, otherwise my weekend is screwed, selfish maybe but if your putting yourself forward as a retailer customers should expect a swift service.
Something which CRC set the standard of and what consumers have come to expect.

There are a lot of rubbish bike shop websites.

But does it matter?

If I want a part, it’s fairly rare that I’ll actually spend time reading/comparing parts, so if i need a headset I just type “hope zs44 lower cup” into google shopping and pick a shop of the first page that I’ve used before and trust. Might not be the cheapest, but probably quickest posting, or not had bad returns experience with them.

The actual websites are irrelevant, just look at Billys or winstanleys, horrible websites, but the stuffs in the post that day and they’re usually cheap.

The actual research bit of the shopping process I’d do on magazine websites, and even then it’s more often to check that the one i have in mind isn’t rubbish, not looking for grouptests or looking through hundreds of pages.

And for expensive bits (>£100), or at least bits with a big disparity in prices between shops (tires and brake pads), i’ll almost always buy online. I’m not in the business, but I’d have thought that if you wanted to make money selling bike bit’s you’d be better off buying 200 XT mechs to get madisons best price, then being the cheapest place to buy XT mechs online, than buying 1 of everything and trying to sell a set of £800 forks to a customer walking in off the street at RRP (because they wont sell online).

I really like 18 bikes website. Yes, they also have a webstore but the rest of the site is good too. I think the site needs to be clean and fresh (and adaptable, think bootstrap).

The number of times I’ve been away on holiday and needed and LBS. I’ve been put off by crap websites that look like they have put no effort in with out of date content.

The actual websites are irrelevant, just look at Billys or winstanleys, horrible websites, but the stuffs in the post that day and they’re usually cheap.

except as the OP is asking it’s not a webfront for selling, it’s a shop window and a way to get people to come to the shop. Personally all the usual LBS are pointless posts are not really relevant. What the page does is try to persuade somebody that you want to pick the phone up or drive by and come in.

Listing bikes you have in stock and sizes is probably a good one, give people something they can’t get elsewhere.

Staff bio’s are what helps you say I’ve been in this game a while, I’ve seen things come and go, I’ve fixed most of them and sold all of them. It helps you make people confident that you are not just some muppet on the internet. Being able to talk to somebody about chain ring sizes and explain what size dropper you can fit and how new products are holding up.

In retail I’d rather make a good customer that comes back and appreciates the package than somebody looking for the cheapest set of cleats.

except as the OP is asking it’s not a webfront for selling, it’s a shop window and a way to get people to come to the shop. Personally all the usual LBS are pointless posts are not really relevant. What the page does is try to persuade somebody that you want to pick the phone up or drive by and come in.

True, but this isn’t 1995, the internet’s moved on.

If I wanted to find an LBS because I’ve blown out a tyre on my touring bike miles from home, I’ll get my phone out, ask cortana/siri/google, have a pin and a name appear on the map and probably never even see the website.

If it’s a local bike shop, it’s like any other local shop, i don’t google the butcher before going round to get my sunday roast, i go to the closest one that hasn’t given me food poisoning.

In retail I’d rather make a good customer that comes back and appreciates the package than somebody looking for the cheapest set of cleats.

I don’t disagree, I just question the point of a website for that business model.

The things you need for that sort of business would be things (other than a website) that drive people into your shop.
* Weekly shop rides
* Host the local cycling club website on your server and get them to start outside the shop

Even if you built the best website ever that kept people on there longer than Facebook, all you’re going to do it keep them 1 click away from buying the part from google in 60 seconds rather than make the drive to your shop.

http://www.cyclewise.co.uk/
A good example for me, no way to buy anything just tells you what they do. Especially for a trail centre shop works well

Tricky one this.
There’s no point imo of maintaining a product database if you’re not selling online.
For me, the main things to do are

[list][*]Analyse what would make your first time viewers think you are worth a visit.[/*] This might be Brand range, personnel, shop photo, friendliness, helpfulness, mechanic skills, route ideas, demo fleet, etc.

[*]Analyse what would make your existing customers think you are worth supporting.[/*] Tea/coffee/chat, spares always in stock, demo bikes, loyalty scheme, shop rides, etc.

[*]Analyse how people may want to find you and what they want to do once they have found you.[/*]

[/list]
That way, you have a list of requirements to check off for any given idea. i.e. Does this homepage manage to communicate the things you’ve decided are important.

imo this doesn’t have to be a complex website at all – just an effective piece of communication.

Then work on a social media/communications plan that will help to keep existing customers engaged with you and therefore more likely to have you in mind when it comes to their next purchase/service/ride.

route ideas

I’ve sometimes wondered this, given how busy trail center bike shops usually are, if you’re in an area with enough free parking then publicizing a few easy to follow routes could potentially get you a lot of new customers for very little effort.

Still based on my assumption that local people won’t go to the website and non-locals won’t go to the shop.

Personally, I like to find quite a bit of information to read (not just regurgitated guff from the manufacturers website either), but seems most people I’ve chatted to so far are more interested in more pictures and less words!

The way to approach this is fairly simple for an ecommerce store. Work out how long it takes you to produce those descriptions and compare it to the amount of revenue the page generates. I almost guarantee that writing your own product descriptions will only pay for itself on a fraction of your product catalogue. This will be even more true for a site that’s not actually selling anything.

The more content you generate the more potential there is for the site to become out of date too, how dedicated are you going to be to maintaining it.

The stock level resourcing thing above is just silly – we’re an 8 digits a year online retailer which also operates a chain of stores and have no one whose job it is to maintain stock info. Across the whole company correcting stock issues takes up maybe a few hours a week. If it’s taking more than that then the company needs to invest in some infrastructure.

AlexSimon above seems to have it about right.

/does this for a living.

In your case mboy the 18bikes website is a good place to look. You seem to offer custom builds as a priority, and I would play to the strength that you sell things a lot of major sites don’t. When I look on Google Shopping for an Evil Following there are only two sites selling them- if you add yourself to that then you’ll surely have some market share.

If that’s the sort of market you’re after make it pretty, have photos of what you sell easy to find and big and photos of your custom builds of frames.

Exactly – munrobiker.
I wasn’t sure exactly what type of shop mboy ran, but if it has some unique brands and specialises in custom builds, then you have to make sure that a) People who look for those things find you, and b) you effectively communicate your expertise and specialisms on the homepage.

It’s your USP. Just like the Peak District location is one of 18bikes USPs

Like the Always Riding website. Quite a small selection of stuff but you get the impression that they mostly sell stuff they like and there’s usually a more personal comment than the typical cut and paste from a manufacturers web site. Looks good too IMO.

I find halfords ideal. I particularly like going in to the store as it really captures the same vibe you get online. You get to stroll around the real isles, nobody will speak to you, very little will excite me, just like being online.

Online as I look at the bikes I often find myself saying “good bikes are not cheap – cheap bikes are not good”.

I often browse online whilst naked at home, I feel comfortable and free, but also slightly thrilled. Again this translates well to the real shop experience as I get chased around by now keen staff as i loudly suggest that “good bikes are not cheap – cheap bikes are not good”.

Just come back to this thread after being exceptionally busy for the last 3 days… WOW!

Can honestly say that the answers recieved have genuinely been the most useful and well thought out responses I can remember on any thread I’ve ever started, in 10+ years on this forum! Many thanks to all of you that have taken the time to respond, your insights have been very thought provoking, but have also confirmed many of my initial suspicions also.

FWIW, my shop has 750sqft of floor space, and there’s 2 of us that work there full time. In other words, CRC or Wiggle we ain’t! We’ve got a good local customer base now, but of course we’re always keen to increase that.

From my point of view, my most important criteria is to bring attention to the things we offer that differentiate us from the next shop. There’s times we can compete on price, but as we don’t have the buying power of CRC/Wiggle we’re certainly not chasing those customers that buy on price alone. Foruntately we’ve got some great products that are reasonably unique to us (within a given area), our customers are happy with the levels of service we provide and we have a good number of those that like to just pop in for a coffee every so often (for those of you doubting the importance of this, I can say that our best 4 customers, the ones that just pop in for a coffee every week or so regardless, have all pretty much frogmarched several of their friends into the shop to buy a bike too! Loyalty & Service is worth something to some people still fortunately…).

Put simply, as a percentage of our turnover, our fixed costs are much higher than the online box shifters, so if I’d be wasting my time to take them on at their own game too. But if my website attracts a few extra people in from our catchment area, or even from outside of it to come and see some of the exclusive brands we stock (that aren’t available cheaply online) then it will have served its purpose handsomely. The site is being built with the facility to switch the shop function on in the future if needs be, but for now would serve to try and increase traffic through the door and on the phone.

I’m pleased that it seems of importance to promote weekly shop rides, and to post local routes. Sadly, we’re not in MTB mecca, but we do have some incredible road riding round our way, and we host 2 weekly road rides too which have proven popular. I’ve also got loads of pre-planned road routes saved as .gpx files, so could upload those to our site too.

The idea will be to have a blog, news feed, and even a Facebook feed on the site too. I do update social media reasonably frequently, and am happy to make time for anything deemed newsworthy on the site without going overboard.

Many thanks again for all your responses so far guys. Would welcome any more advice, suggestions, feedback etc.