How can you have missed the best?
CCM

Go Rotax for simplicity and ever lasting engine or Suzuki power for a touch smoother but therefore less character. idiot proof, I have had 3 and want another. Many versions, road or trail, able to race one in almost any discipline from the Dakar to a sprint. Nice and tall if you so wish. Spares world wide. No brainer really.

What are those KTM dukes like? Quite fancy one for messing around on and I'm after getting rid of the CBR6

Theres a ccm 404 DS (missing off road wheels though) in a local motorcycle dealer, £3k which seems a lot as they go for £2k on ebay and I'm perfectly capable of giving an engine the nececary once over, which is probably all the garage has done.

Review's don't hint at its roadworthyness, which I still don't quite get, the wr125r gets good on-road reviews, but is an unknown quantity off it, anything bigger gets the oppsite, ho hummm

TINAS

A bike for proper off road use will be rubbish on road. Low gearing, high seat, knobbly tyres, small tank. tolerable for short distances only on road.

A tourer will be rubbish offroad. Too heavy and wrong tyres steering and suspension

A single will not be much use as a tourer. Too slow and vibratory

A 50bhp+ single is a rare beast Most are 25 – 40 bhp

A supermotard bike will not be any use as a tourer. Tank too small, too uncomfortable. Too slow.

Many "trail styled" bikes are not offroaders but offroad styled bikes

You need to decide what you want and get a suitable bike

I can't believe this thread is running with me. And without the mighty SRX-600.

This bike will tick almost all the boxes, ok maybe not the off-road one (actually if you stay on fire road it will).

Tank gives you a range of 160-170 miles off mountain roads. You'll get to 70 easily, more need adjustment in your position due to the aerodynamics (position "limande"). I took it from Dieppe to Paris and from Nice to Bourg d'oizans (through the cols) easy peasy. Bike is 176kg wet dry (full fluids and battery) so commuting into town is not a problem. I have yet to come across a bike that's better to get to 'le col de la bonette' (comparing it to 690, street triple, 748, 916, monstro 1000, S4 and F1150) I'll try to get you a picture of my footpegs to give you an idea of how flickable the bike is. Motor is the one from the XT 600 just a tad bigger (608 rather than 599). It will do a perfect first bike to be fair.
Bike shows its limits at speed above 70 mph when you have to corner on fast curves, and on duo (probably because mine does not have a pillon grab). Even in duo the bike is still very very flickable (most to the displeasure of the SO).

As I can't resist here is a picture of angela

flange – Member
What are those KTM dukes like? Quite fancy one for messing around on and I'm after getting rid of the CBR6

I had a Duke II for a year and it was a hoot and a holler. Feels as light as down hill mountain bike and it brilliant fun through twisty b-roads. Pretty impressive acceleration and fuel economy is excellent.
As with all KTM's the seat is quite hard and throttle a bit jerky. Your bum gets used to the seat and I changed the front sprocket down a gear & that calmed it down a bit.

I replaced it with a 990sm and a 990 Adventure, although I'll be selling the SM in spring if you're interested 😉

Many "trail styled" bikes are not offroaders but offroad styled bikes

A bike for proper off road use will be rubbish on road. Low gearing, high seat, knobbly tyres, small tank. tolerable for short distances only on road.

A guys been round the world several times on an R1 (his name still escapes me though, even though I've met him) a guy's mate earlier on this thread did it on a mt-500, my dad regulalry does 1500-2000mile tours on his mt-500, sits at 70 on the motorway all the way to JOG, allong the back roads and a ferry to some remote island, and still more than capable of riding down a track to camp at the beach, previously he's done similar on an xt-500 and a enfield bullet (in 2 or 3 different guises).

A tourer will be rubbish offroad. Too heavy and wrong tyres steering and suspension

See above, and as you'r tandem proves, sometimes its not always about using the right tool for the job.

A single will not be much use as a tourer. Too slow and vibratory

Neithers an R1, and the mt-500's expoilts show they'll quite easily tour.

A 50bhp+ single is a rare beast Most are 25 – 40 bhp

tosh, most modern(ish, I'm not even going to look at CCM's etc seriously) 500cc singles produce more than that, most of the bikes on this thread produce more than 40! anywya, it's a first bike, power isnt everything, a bit of character is.

A supermotard bike will not be any use as a tourer. Tank too small, too uncomfortable. Too slow.

agreed, I've not suggested any, although the CCM does look like a hoot as a toy.

Many "trail styled" bikes are not offroaders but offroad styled bikes

agreed, as I said earlier in the thread the only off road it'll ever realy see is if i turn up somewhere and theres a mile of rough track to negotiate before reaching wherever I'm going, or possibly just because I've gone upto sheffield and fancy a bit of a challange riding stanage.

nick Saunders on the R1

(allegedly) the KTM Duke II will do about 120 although over 110 your nearly blasted off the back (allegedly) & it's not that vibey. I read somewhere that the 690 LC4 is the most powerful (bhp) production single.

Someone will correct me on that.

Sorry now I have read most of the thread.

once you get the starting technique sorted.

Have you got girl's legs or what.
As for the OP
If you want proper off road but road legal, the XR or DR 350 will be the right tool for the job. If you want something a little more civilised, the XT 600 4VE is probably your best bet (600 cc 4 strokes, 4 valves electronic ignition).
The F650 albeit kak is supposed to handle off road pretty well.

Someone will correct me on that.

Not me, however probably won't last as long as the others.

Maybes aye, maybes no.

Lobby_dosser – I'll email you chap, that'll fit nicely with my bonus being paid (hopefully!)

TINAS – Nick Sanders is the guy on the R1. Although if you read his books, he does point out that the rear sub-frame breaks pretty frequently and he's also trying to do it as fast as possible so isn't really bothered about the experience. whilst you could do JOG on a C90, to me if I'm buying a bike then I'd choose something more suitable. Especially when I'm posting asking opinions. R1 and MT's will do the mileage but you'll enjoy it more on something better suited.

Any high power single is going to need rebuilding on a frequent basis, or at least more frequent than a normal inline 4. And I personally wouldn't touch CCM as the build quality is terrible.

2k will just about get you a ropey R1 with sloppy head bearings needing a new chain, tyres and pads at best – theres no such thing as a cheap superbike. Know nowt about MT's but they look dull as. Get yourself a 1100GS – they go on forever

TINAS – I don't know why you are asking for advice as you obviously know better than the rest of us.

Don't be fooled into thinking that quoted BHP is real BHP. I absolutely agree power isn't everything but you say you want 50 – 60 bhp – a reasonable amount for a beginner but a heck of a lot from a single.

You keep moving the goalposts

The MT 500 for example is high 20s bhp

wouldn't touch CCM as the build quality is terrible. 🙄

No worse than the Japs once we are talking second hand. The Rotax stuff was great.
404's have a 400DRZ motor, a great mid sized single.
Ultimately the exact useage will define the bike.

Cheers Juan, most sensible responses so far!

Anyone any experience doing touring, or reasnoble distance road rides on a DR/XR 350, with a screen obviously?

Yep, had a Husky sm610, its physically the same size as any other offroad on road style of bike, yep you could ride it around the world, and when you get to a green lane, ride along it to the campsite, BUT it was rubbish at that and so would they be, HOWEVER it was brilliant for being an absolute hooligan on after 10-15 mins of that, it no other tricks, and it was shit, lots of fun around Lydden on a track day but awful to ride the 60 miles there and even worse to ride home when your tired even worse if your mate had binned his bike so you had to give him a lift.

You could take a c90 around the world, ive seen em fly around the local pits too, but its not the best tool for either job.

TINAS no worries. Mine is going to clock 50000 kms. Going to get big surgery tomorrow (running chain, whole gasket set and the stuff around the cylinder).
My mates got one that went for a whole upper end engine rebuild at 70000 kms. Now the bike is around 105000 kms and it's still sing like a rock star. They really are great little bike. I bought mine for 430£ of ebay. Obviously I did spend around 200£ in tools bits and bobs to have it running. Price goes from around 600-1500 £ depending on the mileage, condition and if it's road ready or not.
Have a look on srx600.net for 16 pages worth of pictures. I'll try to get more on friday when I'll get it back from the mechanics. There is plenty off dedicated web site to it with some interesting project, but they are in French.

I would offer to let you try mine, but you'll have to go down to nice 😉

The MT 500 for example is high 20s bhp

mid 30's with the stock carb, mid 40's with a better one, 55 ish with a bit more fiddeling. Assuming you can kick the thing over.

I haven't moved the goalposts (on this thread, I've already accepted the advice that a off-road race bike won't work) I said honda dominator at the start, and thats still where the money's heading unless someone can show me that it's utterly hopeless.

Once again for TJ's benifit;
Big single (enough power, lots of character)
Capable of touring (but no need ot be the best)
Capable of going off road (but no need to be the best, or even capable realy, its just a nice to have bit)
Capable of doing the 3-mile commute when everything else is broken/unavailable

Fireblade
Lt50 Quad
SuperDuke
Ex-BSB ZX-10
1090
Goldwing
Some OCC bag-o-shite
Buell

Hope this helps

TINAS – yeah right on the MT power.

Good luck on finding a bike that will do all you want. No bike I have ever heard of will do that

but you'll have to go down to nice

Hmmmmm, I do have some holliday to use up after my test ……………..

Is this whole thread a really elaborate winding-up of TJ? He has asked sensible questions, only to be told, for example, that you want a big trail bike that's a big version of a CG125! FFS! How much more confusing a question could you get? Apart from being a single cylinder bike there is no other similarity.

Anyhow, sounds like any really big trail bike would suit. DR Big? My mate had a couple of those and loved them.

Well then again if buy off road you mean fire road the SRX is perfectly capable (you might struggle a bit though).

One last try. A transalp? Ok its not a single and it is under 40 bhp but you have the tourability you want with a bit of character and a touch of offroad ability with the offroad style you seem to want.

I took my R1100RS off roading. I broke it and nearly broke myself

Except the one thing he did state clearly was that the bike needs to be big, and an SRX is a nice compact thing with fairly low handlebars.

I'd have thought that restricting it to single cylinder is a bit silly, tbh. Yes to wanting a bit of character/grunt/texture – but twins have those qualities too. BMW GSs have a lot of character, for example. Or how about a mid-weight adventure type bike? v-strom etc.

I took my R1100RS off roading. I broke it and nearly broke myself

Well I have seen how your ride a push bike off road 😉 SO you can't blame it all on bike you know 😉
When are you heading down south with druidh btw? So we can grind the foot pegs on the road and i can teach you a piloting lesson 😈

SRX is a nice compact thing with fairly low handlebars.

You can find the drawing to put some riser on it if needed.

SRX is nice and pure the way it is and would be ruined with bigger bars – it just isn't the kind of bike he's after. At least I don't think it is. Hard to tell.

Juan – Dunno when I'll get to your part of the world again ( south of France????) and my days of big bikes are gone. I aim to have the BSA sorted this winter. I am ready for some 40 bhp riding again. Now thats a fun bike. Scraping the footrests at 80 mph you know you are going fast 🙂

SRX is nice and pure the way it is and would be ruined with bigger bars

I agree (after all I have one 😉 ) but it was just to help the OP.

big version of a CG125

A possible design brief for a CG125;
*simple
*single cylinder
*looks don't offend people
*cheep
*reliable
*nice neutral handling

Add;
*some power
*trail (style) bike, but not essential to fit this bit
*bigger

And you get what I'm after, the 500cc, single cylinder equivelent of a cyclocross bike with panniers.

You really are looking for smoething that does not exist IMO. the nearest would be a transalp or a BMW funduro

Are you just looking to be über-niche?

There is a reason why not many big singles are produced 🙄

The CB500, ER5, GS500, Bandit 600 etc. etc. etc. all fit the bill, but don't have the (arbitrary) engine configuration that you demand.

It sounds as if virtually any non-'sports' motorbike would do you.

I'd look at the TDM850
(simple and with carbs. The 900 is too complex).
They do everything fairly well. The handling is on the soft side as standard, but can be fettled.
-They're vastly under-rated.

ps. If you want an enduro bike then a 250/350 is what you want, not a 650.

How about a Norton Commander or F1 lol

Wankel engine fun 85bhp 9000rpm or 95 for the F1

Though as its twin rotor it is kind ok twin cylinder lol

Cheers Steve

My first bike pictured below:

Was fantastic fun – with some knobblies on it could tackle green lanes, although was a bit of a challenge to get out from underneath when trapped in a ditch 😆

Decent amount of speed (certainly up to speed limits) fantastic noise (after I fitted a new silencer) comfortable for long distances.

Can't comment on whether it's looks offend 😀

Broke down once which was due to water getting into the spark plug, and the exhaust succumbed to tin worm, apart from that, was ace.

Wish I'd never sold it 🙁

Cheers, Rich

What are those KTM dukes like? Quite fancy one for messing around on and I'm after getting rid of the CBR6

They are ****ing awesome, but anything older than a 690 (basically anything that isnt the Duke III) requires a ridiculous amount of love to keep running. If you don't fancy the money pit, buy a 950 or 990SM instead… and anyway, ~65HP gets boring quickly 😉

TINAS – the 690 is still the nearest you're going to get to your requirements IMO. stock seat is a little firm, but nothing £100 can't sort out with a gel seat. KTM dealers are always happy to give a test ride, and KTM's insurance does not require you to have a license for a certain amount of time or have a minimum age limit or anything like that.

A doctor Big, brilliant bike 😀

OP you seem conflicted on what you want.

A bit random but I bought a worksop manual off a bloke from Barry who does offroad guiding around the valleys…anyway when I met him he was on his way to Spain on his DR350, well loaded up too. Its possible but I wouldnt recommend it.

If you want to do touring then you need something big like a 650, it'll just be so much mroe relaxed, however big thumper offroad (UK kind wet muddy narrow) is bad and takes a lot of fitness. Big thumpers are for McGregor/Boorman type offroad.

I ride a KLX250, it is fantastic offroad, but is not good onroad.

turboferret has the right idea!

DR Big duly added to bikes to go and sit on 😀

And whats wrong with picking an arbitary engine configuration? It's not like I asked for 1/5bhp, 1 gear and 29" wheels, now that would just make a stupid bike……………

Whats conflicting?
Big single (preferable, I did mention moto guzzis in the OP)
Touring/long distances at motorway speed (needs a screen of some sort, but thats easy enough to fit aftermarket)
Preferably capable of light off roading occasionaly (not essential)
Reasnobly proportioned so I'm not banging my knees on the bars.

Are you just looking to be über-niche?

YES!