About to take the plunge having been doing stealth upgrades on the old bike -where you tell the wife you are just getting a frame and using your old bits even though you have sneakily upgraded the whole thing. But there does seem a big difference in price between the Cotic and the On-One not to mention the ragley inbetween. Is the Cotic worth £320ish more than the 456? Or is it just a label thing?

depend on the value you place on it being 853

If you're consideing a 456 then I'd say no, the increase i price isn't worth it but if you're look at a £300 frame it might be. Much lighter than many other steel frames and just as versatile as most. If you're just looking at the soul for weight then maybe Carbon 456?

I was in the same situation not so long ago ( I own a Simple as well which is brilliant)

But the 456 was £350 cheaper and money talks

So I bought the 456 no regrets it goes down hill faster than I can and is superb on singletrack and makes me smile

yes the Soul would be a slightly more comfortable and springy but the differance is not that much if my simple is anything to go by

the extra goes into intangible pride-of-ownership elements; its a better steel (whether you could tell in a blind test of otherwise identical frames is a different matter), maybe more finesse on some of the finishing (dropouts etc)?

The £350 difference is the price of, for example, a pair of 140mm RS Revelations.

Price/cost is obviously a factor for you, so it seems a no brainer to go for the 456. Like I did.

Having owned both, no.

Currently own a Prince Albert which, given teh choice, I'd probably choose over the Soul and probably over the 456.

I thought exactly the same and ended up getting a Cove Handjob

From another POV; how much lighter is the soul? I'd have thought that the 456 is more comparable to the BFe. HARD hitting hardtails, where the Soul is a bit lighter.

The world would be a terribly dull place if people only made buying decisions based on "value".

Though I guess, "value" is a thing a bit like "quality". (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, etc).

Semantics dressed up as philosophy if you ask me.

Despite his questionable taste in literature Brant does design some great frames and from my experience with the Mmmbop, a Blue Pig would be worth a try.

The features on the frame (bolt on cable guides, huge tyre clearance…) are worth the step up in price from a 456 in my opinion.

Don't know about 'worth' but you don't hear about many people who bought a Soul then regretted it.

Love my Soul!

Brant, didnt hear you using that as a tagline when you were at On One? 😆

Many bike purchases are made with the heart as much as the head. I bought the 456 as an affordable experimental re-introduction to HTs after a medically enforced absence, but my "other" bike is a Nomad which the cynic could argue is an overpriced re-badged Giant full susser (actually mine's a US-built Mk1 but you get the point), but for the OP budget is explicitly a factor.

I've ridden a Soul and a 456 – imo the 456 was more comfortable than the Soul..

What about the Pipedream 853 ?

Nice steel HT with 853 main triangle, 130mm forks and £295 !

http://www.bikemagic.com/gear-news/pipedream-sirius-r853/7571.html

I have one coming 🙂

I too am considering getting a nice steel frame at the moment.

I noticed several of the frames mentioned here don't have replaceable dropouts, is that something I should be worried about (tbh having replaced dropouts in the past I am… ). As far as I am aware the 456, prince albert and blue dog are all singlepiece frame / dropout?

Nope. You don't need them on Steel frames. You can bend steel back and forth a lot before it breaks. You can't with aluminimium.

The weight reduction of a Soul over a 456 is pretty solid but not enough to justify the price difference really… For me it was nothing to do with the frame material and the weight wasn't all that important either, it was just purely the overall ride, the Soul just seemed to fit perfectly from the word go which I've never felt about the 456 (which is a great bike but we just don't gel the same). If there was a cheaper cromo Soul I'd have bought that instead tbh.

But yeah, the Soul is very expensive, and unless it gives you exactly what you're after is hard to justify. Just that in some cases, it does 😉

the Soul just seemed to fit perfectly from the word go which I've never felt about the 456

Which is exactly what I found but vice versa. Forget 'value', 'quality' and every deranged cycling bodhisattva, forget image, get the one that will fit you best and best suit your riding.

Love my Soul!

So do I 😉

Dublin soul

just get what you want,sometimes you just av to give it a try,im goner get one at some point with some lyrics on it,but ive just bought a new s-works tarmac road frame and a whyte 19 trail frame

just do it dude

How fooking true Lock!