I see the Salvation Army get a mention above. What a great organisation they are, they just get on with it. Great brass band as well.

mt – Member
“….climb the ladder in their Cult of respectability” whats that mean? Jacobs Ladder?

Do I have to elaborate? it would be very interesting if you would Gnargnar how else will we keep the thread going?

“Do you see Bible bashers down at the homeless and washed-out actively trying to convert them?”

Er, yep I do, and rather gently while they are scraping them up from the gutter of their existence. Helping others is considered God’s work. Good init?

Wise words Mark 8)

wwaswas- erm I meant the word ‘missionary’…ducks (Quack!)

Every Salvation Armist’ I have ever met has smelt of mints. Why? 😆

GNAR, Yes they did find him 🙂

Surfer, you need to check out a bible a bit. No one gets a greater reward for doing “good things”, everyone is treated equally if they believe. Read about the thief on the cross for example.

ourmaninthenorth – Member
I do like the idea that someone who starts a thread called “bible bashers” (a widely accepted derogatory term for Christians) and then rants about a specific group stealing *his* sport, then goes oin to suggest he isn’t a bigot.

Perhaps I should have used bible thumpers? Christ lickers? I am certainly no more biggoted than the average christian. I’ve never stopped someone in the street to inform them I was righteous, and they were damned because of their beliefs. I dont think homosexuals are an abomination, I dont think Islam is a religion of hate, I believe that the theory of evolution should be taught in schools………….

I have many good christian friends, however they (along with every other christian I meet) seems to place zero value on my beliefs.

It’s not the offence caused to those with faith I mind, it’s some fat IT bloke on his £3k full susser referring to the puffing and panting he does on a Sunday morning at a trail centre as being a “sport”.

Im not about to start an internet pissing contest….but….Im anything but fat or unfit, I ride a dirt jump hardtail and I hate trail centres. Try again fat boy.

I see it is only non believers like myself who will feel the wrath?

Which Bible by the way?

I understood the first one had a special reward for non believers like me?

Or do you mean the second one that clearly states the that nothing from the first was to be left undone?

hora, yes she is a real missionary (going to the far flung corenrs of the world spreadign the word of God). She is also the pastor of an evangelical church (in wales, so not quite so far flung). I’m not dreadfully comfortable with this but it’s her life and, frankly, if it keeps her happy, fit and with a young outlook on life who am I to complain – the people she preaches to can always say ‘no thanks’).

she also does a lot of work in getting aid to people who need it for a variety of reasons (which I applaud her for).

I am certainly no more biggoted than the average christian. I’ve never stopped someone in the street to inform them I was righteous, and they were damned because of their beliefs. I dont think homosexuals are an abomination, I dont think Islam is a religion of hate, I believe that the theory of evolution should be taught in schools………….

The average Christian has probably never done any of those things either.

One religion (sect) that I do like is Sufism. It just seems so majestic, poetic, beautiful and full of love.

Your beliefs should be ranked alongside my belief in the tooth fairy and you should expect to be ridiculed for them as I would be.

Why does your invisible friend demand more respect than my fairy?

My sister is just going to train as a vicar BUT she doesn’t try to hard to convert people and she can see both sdies of an argument so i reckon she’ll make a great vicar.

The aspect of religion I dislike is the guilt and fear they try and lay on you if you don’t believe.

I’ll help raise an army to stand alongside Surfer in devotion to the tooth fairy

The average Christian has probably never done any of those things either.

Based on personal experience I strongly disagree. If the “average christian” has never done those things then the new breed is making up for them tenfold.

Your beliefs should be ranked alongside my belief in the tooth fairy and you should expect to be ridiculed for them as I would be.

Why does your invisible friend demand more respect than my fairy?

Do you hold a deep conviction that the tooth fairy is real?

Hora, My Fairysist views should be respected.

I also agree that the Fairies exist surfer. I have seen them with my own god-given eyes (Allah be praised). I have seen many of them around the river that floweth through Manchester. Many many a fairy.

Mike do you mean do I hold a deluded conviction that cant be quantified and is supported by no evidence. No I dont my conviction to Fairysism is short lived.

However “what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence”

Hora their is only one true Wirral Fairy, You are worshiping a false fairy. This will end in tears

The irony of this thread is palpable – the amount of preaching going on, on both sides is ironic.

Think about it like this – it takes AS MUCH faith, to believe in the non-existence of God (and his/her prophets etc) as it does to believe in them.

There is as much anti-religous proselytization as there is religious proselytization going on here.

My vote is still up for grabs though so keep at it. I was an atheist, but now I’m not so sure.

Aaah I see the insults have started, thanks. Ok surfer, I’ll do you a deal, I will listen to whatever you have to say about the tooth fairy, no problem. Go ahead, please enlighten me. And I’m not being sarcastic.

You can ridicule me too, no problem. Whatya got next?

What do you mean by the first and second bible by the way?

Based on personal experience I strongly disagree. If the “average christian” has never done those things then the new breed is making up for them tenfold.

Based on my experience of lions, their natural habitat is in a fenced in area of parkland. There may be loads of other lions that I’ve not seen, however.

Perhaps you need to widen your experience of Christians? The last vicar of the church closest to my work married his long-term partner Malcolm a years or two ago. I’ve never asked him his opinion of Islam or evolution, but he’s never ranted about them.

Jeez.. organised religion winds me up!

It wound Jesus up too…is that what you meant? 🙄

GNARGNAR

Your view is based on personel experience, I thought there was more to it than you were letting on. Come on now tell us all what it is from your past that makes you hate Christians invading your space (should that be conscience) you’ll feel better. And we can then feel empathy but not blaim those Christians not involved.

I’m not ridiculing you Rob.
We both know i dont believe in Fairies but my children did when they lost teeth. i am ridiculing religion however.

Think about it like this – it takes AS MUCH faith, to believe in the non-existence of God (and his/her prophets etc) as it does to believe in them

Does that mean i need a faith to NOT believe that Elvis lives, that the world is indeed flat and that it is only 6000 years old? Faith is belief with no evidence. I am a busy man considering all of the things that I dont believe in!

Surfer, everyone has a fairy within him (or her, usually him though). My fairy talks to me, gives me strong conviction when descending through rock gardens, allowing me to walk/lower my bike down confidently.

We share the same Fairism, beleive me. Only in some, Fairism is stronger.

There is as much anti-religous proselytization as there is religious proselytization going on here.

That’s exactly the way it has to be.

I’ll stop preaching atheism (and I’m not being ironic with the word ‘preach’ I’m more than comfortable wit it and I don’t agree that it is an oxymoron to preach atheisism) when organised religion stops their preaching.

I’ll stop my policy of actively seeking to convert the religious to atheism when they take a similar stance. But that’s not going to happen unfortunately.

Does that mean i need a faith to NOT believe that Elvis lives, that the world is indeed flat and that it is only 6000 years old? Faith is belief with no evidence. I am a busy man considering all of the things that I dont believe in!

Have you personally verified the age of the world, or did you believe someone else who did so? You’d be a busy man finding evidence for all the things that you believe in.

we have a stair fairy in my house.

I place some items at the foot fo the stairs and they magically find their way upstairs to where I was going to put them.

the stair fairy only seems to work when my wife is in the house though.

I’ll stop my policy of actively seeking to convert the religious to atheism when they take a similar stance.

How active are you being? May I suggest Tehran as a starting point? There are loads of theists there for you to convert to atheism.

😉

The sacred Bicycle is my religion. How many of us/you worship at the church of muddy singletrack of a sunday morning, and use it as a way to clear your head, or right a few wrongs of the day

that almost smacks of going into a mosque to convert people.

I’m very much for each to thier own, but please dont come and try and inflict it on me.
and the god-botherers are the worst offenders of this imo.
i now live in fear of jehovas :$, and have missed more than one bike related parcel because i go and check out the upstairs window who is at the door before answering (we were getting them everyday at one point :'( and im too nice to tell them to ROD OFF)

This thread can only end badly.

there’s no mileage to be had by trying to convince each other of the “rightness” of each other’s faith/lack of faith.

Jihad, it’s the only way, nickc.

Mind you, I’ve seen more vitriol in a Marin thread…

i now live in fear of jehovas :$, and have missed more than one bike related parcel because i go and check out the upstairs window who is at the door before answering (we were getting them everyday at one point :'( and im too nice to tell them to ROD OFF)

MTFU and just say “no thank you” before closing the door. Jeez.

because we dont have explanations for everything doesnt mean we should believe in imaginary gods, your god is just a god of the gaps!

Have you personally verified the age of the world, or did you believe someone else who did so?

No, the best evidence to date is available in peer reviewed articles that get picked over and altered as new evidence becomes available.

The key difference is that science is our current best evaluaion and open to alteration as new facts / methods / understanding emerge. Religion is set and immutable and has to be accepted with out any qualification.

SSP

Faith is belief with no evidence.

Exactly – there is as little evidence for the existence of God (discounting of course the various anthropic principles, which are less religious in content and more philosophical) as there is evidence for the non-existence of God.

To illustrate the point – other than simply saying ’twas ever thus’ or using Occam’s Razor, give me proof that God does not exist.

If you spend some time thinking about it (I don’t mean that as a jibe, I mean it as a serious suggestion), it does makes sense. Or then again, maybe it doesn’t…

Oh and Mark – quite agree there should always be a debate. I was merely observing the irony.

In the old days Christians were hard ****. Taking Crusades to foreign lands. Bringing freedom to Jerusalem. Now its a **** football song.

Where did it all go wrong?

I start asking the JW’s questions they can’t possibly answer. Stops them bothering other people as I take up all their time. It’s a service I provide for free. Thank you. 🙂

Religion is set and immutable and has to be accepted with out any qualification

Not true. I know two CofE vicars (both called David, but that’s not really relevant) who have very different beliefs about the nature of God and the Bible.

Geetee

Its ironic that those that believe the most outrageous and unprovable tales are treated with the utmost respect. Faith is seen as a virtue!

Its also ridiculous that beacause the existence of god cannot be proved or disproved the likelihood of his existence is 50:50.

Use the same analogy with fairies?