Here's the scam. Obtain birth certificates for children who died in the 60's. Apply for birth certificates and then set up claims for all sorts of benefits in their names. These people had numerous UK addresses, but lived abroad (Nigeria – what a surprize!!). They returned every few months to process their claims, then off they went again. It went on unnoticed for a staggering 17 years and the fraudsters were making 200 simultaneous claims! Scandalous! A bunch of public sector workers let this happen. They are responsible for handing away our money. Why are they so breathtakinkly incompetent?

The good news is that the fraudsters are behind bars now. There was so much evidence it took the authorities 9 months to decifer. The fraudsters stole £1,174,000!! They only got 4 years and 3 years respectively in prison. Someone said justice was served! WTF!! Juctice would be something a great great deal worse in a fair world. Damn we are so soft!!

The UK has the most generous benefits system of any nation and thus attracts unscrupulous people from all over the world, not just people in the UK.

This soft system has been widely abused to the point that some families here have several generations using benefits as a lifestyle choice instead of for it's intended use; emergency provision in very exceptional circumstances.

I think we should sweep the whole system away and start afresh. Then maybe a load of people who refuse to do a day's graft will get off their backsides and start contributing!

We cannot afford this nonsense anymore! It is patently unjust!

The system should work for people who do work and want to work, but who have fallen on hard times. They should get some essential support, but when they are working, their taxes shouldn't be spunked away on a bunch of leaching loosers!

Makes me mad when iread things like this especially as my wifes nan who is a widow and an amputee has been told she is not disabled enough for benefits. WTF??????????

Yep, my mum had two heart attacks in quick succession in her early 50s. Doc advised to her to give up work immediately, which she did. No incapacity benefit for her, despite a pretty clearly worded letter from the doc.

Harsh (but possibly okay) until she was dragged aside by some little scrote who helpfully explained all the "correct" answers to the questions to ensure you get maximum allowance.

Being an honest sort she refused to lie and got nothing.

My Dad was out of work for 2 years due to a persistant elbow injury (he's a professional violinist) but the criteria used to assess disability benefits was so vague (things like "Can you tie your shoelaces?" and "Can you turn on a tap") that he wasn't classed as unable to work due to disability he was effectively out of work of his own free will according to The System so they stopped his benefits.

The fact that he had notes from the doctor and physio saying he was unable to hold a violin to play it apparently didn't matter.

Being honest and lawful gets you nowhere in this country I am afraid.

hmm. OP says system is too soft, others say it's too harsh. i'm all confused.
were the nigerian's jailed in this country, or abroad? was any of the money recovered? historically fraud has been considered a white collar crime and has generally attracted lower sentences anyway. i do not condone this of course, but no-one actually got hurt, did they?
in addition does being a proffesional violinist preclude you seeking alternative employement?
benefits and legal system in 'getting it wrong sometimes' shock.

Being honest and lawful gets you nowhere in this country I am afraid.

yep, a girlfriend, a decent job, a car, a house, a dog, and enough money to buy bikes and go on holidays. being honest and lawful certainly blows goats for me….

good grief. 🙄

The UK has the most generous benefits system of any nation

I think that would be something to be proud of if it were true, but I still seem to see a lot of poor people around 🙁

Being honest and lawful gets you nowhere in this country I am afraid.

If you only measure 'getting somewhere' in terms of what benefits you can get then you're possibly/probably right. Luckily most people like to feel that 'getting somewhere' in life is about rather more than that.

crazy-legs , I hate to be harsh but why couldnt he do another job ? should the state pay you just because you cant do one specific job ?
Unfortunately it sounds fair to me

SFB – not sure whats going wrong, I know a couple who live quite comfortably on their due benefits and basic state pension (as you'd hope would be their purpose). They're not claiming for anything they're not entitled to, not making anything up etc. They just cut their cloth to suit, and still get to go on holidays abroad and repair the house and car with their own cash.

And while it's a pain in the ass, crazy-legs, he could do other work, office work, filing, data entry…..

Scandalous! A bunch of public sector workers let this happen.

Amazing! Shocking! – a bunch of private sector workers did this:

It was HBOS's business loans – many of them property related – which contributed most of a £9.7bn charge for debts that are going bad in Lloyds's so-called wholesale division. And it comes on top of a £9.3bn charge that was incurred in the second half of last year.
So that's £19bn of charges for loans to companies that are turning sour during just one year of recession. Those losses represent 8% of all loans and advances in that area of activity.
Wow.
And to be clear, this is not a newfangled, new age loss on impenetrable financial products such as collateralised debt obligations.link

What were they thinking of? If only they'd had public sector staff.

Spongebob, is there any on-line link to this newstory?

+1 for Clubber's comments

There is so much more to life than milking the benefit system.

yep, a girlfriend, a decent job, a car, a house, a dog, and enough money to buy bikes and go on holidays. being honest and lawful certainly blows goats for me

Holy out of context batman! Well done to you 🙄
I have a wife, a house, a baby, a job I love and spare cash so shall we stop willy waving Jesus do you need a ladder up there on your high horse??.
My point is related to the benefits system. Lie through your teeth and you get it all, as they don't really check. But if you are honest you get nowt! How is that fair?

And while it's a pain in the ass, crazy-legs, he could do other work, office work, filing, data entry…..

Who the hell is going to employ a 60yr old non-computer-literate bloke with a non-working arm??!
He suffered RSI when trying to use computers (he went on a training course to learn, he wasn't sat around doing nothing). Couldn't lift much in the way of weights, certainly not all day. Since he left school he's never done anything else other than be a musician.
Even driving long distance was a pain cos his arm would get sore from being in one place, he'd have to stop for ages in a services and stretch it out.

Believe me he tried his best and now he's had his operation he's back working and earning.

Same here.
Have been ill on and off for nearly 3 years and unable to work for short periods ( I'm self employed) and am not entitled to anything.

Thats a bit racist? My housemate is Nigerian, and my ex is Nigerian, I don't think either has ever claimed benifits beyond a student loan/tuition fees or scamed anyone (not paying for her share of the Ben and Jerries doesn't count)

i'm guessing spongebob watched the same daytime TV as I did this morning. A wonderful program called Saints and Sinners.

Nigerians aren't a race so it isn't racist. You could argue that it's discriminatory though…

Having lived in Nigeria though, while I don't doubt that there are honest people so it's unfair to say that all Nigerians are crooks, the culture doesn't seem to value honesty much.

TBH – I've not had much to do with the benefits system other than a period on the dole in the early 80s – but who wasn't?

Anyway, I do wonder what – would be – immigrants see in the UK
An awful lot of them travel right across Europe in an attempt to gain access to the UK, if it isn't the benefits system that is so good, what is it that makes some of them take such extraordinary risks to get here when they could easily stay in Poland, Italy, Spain etc?

I'm pretty sure it won't be the weather 🙂

spongoebob

how come you are at home watching daytime tv

i hope you arent spongeing benefit off the state!

if it isn't the benefits system that is so good, what is it that makes some of them take such extraordinary risks to get here when they could easily stay in Poland, Italy, Spain etc?

Could it be the fact that whislt we raping and pillaging their country we left them the language and some cultural markers they still hold dear?
Could it be because we have a worldwide reputaion for tolerance, fairplay and anti- racism?
Mmmm Italy ,spain, poland racist reputations let me think for a moment there eh

The UK has the most generous benefits system of any nation and thus attracts unscrupulous people from all over the world, not just people in the UK.

Utter rubbish. Most European benefit systems are far more generous

Some of the things I've seen people do in Calais in an attempt to get across the channel are frankly unbelievable

I take your point about Spain etc. but the low countries etc. don't particularly fit that MO & yet people battle their way through to the UK

Could it be the fact that whislt we raping and pillaging their country we left them the language and some cultural markers they still hold dear?

Most of the people I've come across are non English speakers

Does the government ever get any of this money back?

TJ – got anything to back that up – I'd genuinely be interested. I find it hard to believe that we are the most generous but then, maybe we're poorly managed? No idea – would be good to see some proper research into it.

shamelessly stolen from the afghanistan thread

Congratulations! you've won a special Daily Mail Achievers Award! If you'd only dropped in something about health and safety gone mad you'd have got an Achievers Award with Distinction.

Please call in at reception to collect your Princess Diana mug.

My guess is as per clubber's – we aren't very good at controlling the money

Clubber – only what my dutch relatives tell me of the dutch system and some out of date knowledge of german, french.

The dutch pay 75- 90% of previous salary to claimants, sickness benefit is at the same level and hardly policied

Benefits here are very low.

Google will give you more info.

Clubber – only what my dutch relatives tell me of the dutch system

yes, a Dutch bloke told me the same, he pays 50% wages as tax but gets 70% of full wage if laid off

But presumably you have to be a citizen of the country to qualify for unemployment benefit? That would have no relevance to immigrants then…

I don't go for the whole "Soft touch Britain" thing but there does have to be some reason why people make the effort to come here when they could easily settle in France/Spain/Netherlands/etc with less hassle. Hopefully it's just that they believe that Britain is a good place to live (rightly or wrongly as they may discover when they get here…)

The UK has the most generous benefits system of any nation

Where did you get that from Spongebob …….. The Sun ?

I don't think anything has changed that much in the last couple of years – I certainly haven't noticed any sort of revolution.

Britain is pisspoor when it comes to level of benefit payments. In fact, as that chart shows, it is nigh on impossible for Britain to do any worst. Unless of course you want to make comparisons with third world countries.

So you've found someone who has fiddled the system, big deal. People also fiddle banks out of money too ……. and their clients……and their employers …… etc etc. What do you want to do about it – close banks and businesses where someone has been caught fiddling ?

And do you think this only happens in Britain ?

There’s a 44-year old man, who has been living off of unemployment benefits in France for most of the last 26 years

Yeah, some people use things in ways in which it was not intended. Some people take the piss out of the NHS …. what do you want to do about it it ? Scrap the NHS ? Some people drive too fast on motorways ….what do you want to do about it it ? Scrap motorways ?

My uncle drives a lorry from Inverness to Italy every 2 weeks, a couple of months ago when he got the the customs in Calais they found 2 people hanging onto the underside of the lorry and removed them, when he got of a Dover and set of again he noticed another 2 hanging onto the lorry, he phoned the police who then met him at a roundabout of the motorway, when immigration turned up they said they were going to fine him £10,000 for each person,he told them that he'd been through the scanners at Calais, they phoned Calais to check if this was true,he was told that they probably saw him coming through the scanners and thought they'd be safe and that he wouldn't be checked again, he was then released, but goes to show once again doing the right thing could be costly

immigrants want to come here because britain espoused its reputation for fairness and goodness back in the days when we had that empire business

sadly many people believe the hype, what they dont realise is that there are an awful lot of small minded, self centred biggots here and infact we tend to treat our poor, uneducated and unemployed like crap

there does have to be some reason why people make the effort to come here when they could easily settle in France/Spain/Netherlands/etc with less hassle

I believe that one of the principle reasons is that Britain allows asylum seekers to work – France for example doesn't, although it will allow them to claim social security benefits. People tend to want to work, not live on benefits and in poverty. Also many people in third world countries speak English, which makes finding work in Britain a tad easier than in say in France.

Being honest and lawful gets you nowhere in this country I am afraid.

was your entire post. how exactly did i take anything out of context?
FWIW the one occaision i presented myself in the hope of a few quid from the state i was rebuffed, due to insuffucient NI contributions – silly me for not claiming over a period of six months before when i was unemployed 🙄
my horse is of average height, i assure you. HTH.

I believe that one of the principle reasons is that Britain allows asylum seekers to work

That sounds like it may be at least part of the reason but the lengths that some of them go to to get from say Holland to the UK is extraordinary

We once [last year] had a a guy who wedged himself underneath the fold-down satellite antenna on the roof of one of our vans, we discovered him just outside Calais when we did our stowaway check – very heavy fine otherwise – the only place he could have got under it was at a service station near Venlo in Holland, earlier that day – that's got to be 250 miles

It was mid January 😯 & the poor guy looked half dead

Nearly dying to get out of Holland? – don't they even tolerate intolerance there?

Anyway the bloody scroungers don't know they're born! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

That sounds like it may be at least part of the reason but the lengths that some of them go to to get from say Holland to the UK is extraordinary

.

Actually, despite the fact that France won't allow asylum seekers to work (unless they've changed the law recently?) France is still a more popular destination with asylum seekers than Britain. Quote (4th paragraph from the bottom) :

"France receives the highest number of asylum seekers per annum (35,160 in 2008) in Western Europe and is third among industrialised nations after the United States and Canada."

.

And in fact in 2004, France was the number one destination in the industrialised world for asylum seekers.

FRANCE received the largest number of asylum applications in the industrialised world, overtaking the US for the first time.

.

As I said, if people go to 'extraordinary lengths' to enter the UK, then it's more likely to be because they speak English and will probably be able to work, rather than because Britain a 'soft touch' or in anyway generous.

Never underestimate how desperate penniless and destitute people can be.

😯
I didnt realise i could scrounge and live abroad whilst doing it.

Sunny climes HERE I COME!!