I know quite a few of us are local, this just appeared on my FB. Disappointing sentence…
http://www.lancashire.police.uk/news/2017/january/man-jailed-following-death-of-cyclist.aspx

I haven’t ridden over that road on a weekend since this happened, had felt in danger a few times before that.

For non-locals – the road across the moor is used by loads of motorbikers at weekends, as there’s a “meet” held nearby. Most ride safely but a fair few do go way too fast and take chances on the corners.

He should have got that sentence just for the police chase let alone killing someone.

18 months, you **** wot m8

The sentence is disgusting and is an insult to Dave’s family and friends! The justice system in this country is a shambles!

I’m a local lad and knew of Dave from the racing scene, Me and my Mrs passed in the car shortly after the accident had happened and helped clear the road so the emergency services could get to the scene.

I had trained and raced on that stretch of road quite often before it happened but only been over once since the accident (Whilst racing in the Chorly GP road race) and won’t go over there again!

I still ride over Sheephouse to Belmont and back a lot on weekdays.

It’s usually fine and it’s the obvious way to get onto the moors from mine (as well as being a great climb obvs).

Just weekends when the loons were out.

Re. this case, it was tried at Crown Court so…

The maximum penalty for the offence on indictment is five years imprisonment with a mandatory minimum period of disqualification of twelve months (or 3 -11 points where special reasons are found not to disqualify).

Perhaps press coverage will feature some comments from the judge explaining the leniency.

That’s bollocks. If I ever decide to commit murder I am going to use a car or motorbike.

Hang on, so:

After failing to stop for police, Santos started an eight mile pursuit, reaching speeds of 90 miles per hour (mph) in a 30mph zone.

=

…suspicion of causing death by careless driving.

What the actual ****!?!

How is 90 in a 30, failure to stop for police and then killing someone not a Dangerous driving charge?

CPS cop out yet again!

Edit: just re-read, two separate offenses, still clearly a cock…

Is that where the photographer takes action shots of power ranger moterbikeists being heroic??
Can’t help but think stuff like that just encourages twatty behaviour
Mr Santos is clearly a massive coward, I hope his 18 months in jail is filled with non consensual bum action….

How is 90 in a 30, failure to stop for police and then killing someone not a Dangerous driving charge?

That was 2 separate cases.

They need to put an average speed camera on that road with ANPR

Lancs cc are targeting some roads

Is that where the photographer takes action shots of power ranger moterbikeists being heroic??

Yes, they need to give him an ASBO

I didn’t know anything about this and am not from the area but – **** me it’s another example of piss poor CPS/judicial performance.

Is that where the photographer takes action shots of power ranger moterbikeists being heroic??
Yes, they need to give him an ASBO

Or a local ride out to stand in front of him.,,,

Been almost taken out myself by motorbikes cutting corners in the past on that road, haven’t been up there for years. The sentence is a f’ing disgrace… also videos of pr..ks on motorbikes showing off their speed doesn’t help… if you have a need to speed on a moto, go to a f’ing track!

I didn’t know anything about this and am not from the area

He’s a scumbag from a proper scumbag area. The whole of Tonge Moor needs bombing. The sentence is an absolute insult.

As for Sheep House Lane where it happened, think of it as being a mini Cat and Fiddle. Being on that road at weekend is truly a terrifying experience. Not helped by a professional photographer being up there most weekends taking picture of bikers in “action”, putting them up on his website and then selling them. Average speed camera’s would be a great idea.

I hadn’t realised until this morning that it was 12 months for the (more recent) police chase and SIX MONTHS for killing somebody. Sickening.

And as for careless rather than dangerous driving – WTF?! This wasn’t a mistake. It wasn’t mechanical failure or loosing control on a patch of oil. It was blatantly riding too fast through blind bends with no regard for anyone on the road ahead or coming the other way.

CPS, police and courts should be ashamed of themselves for this outcome.

I once had an argument with that photographer – idiots riding past doing all kinds of crazy stuff in order to get ‘the photograph’. I told him he was going to cause a serious accident – he wasnt having any of it (and ended up telling me to f@#k off)

I sometimes just flash motorbikes (from my car) so they think I’m warning them about the police…makes them slow down quick!

I sometimes just flash motorbikes (from my car) so they think I’m warning them about the police…makes them slow down quick!

hehehe good idea

Perhaps family / friends / someone might be interested in making a representation to the public inquiry mentioned in this thread:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-cycling-and-the-justice-system-enquiry-deadline-16th-jan

Try to make something good come out of something that is so awful and sh!te.

lowey – Member
from a proper scumbag area. The whole of Tonge Moor needs bombing.

Cheers Dave, I love you too, mate 😡

He’s a scumbag from a proper scumbag area. The whole of Tonge Moor needs bombing. The sentence is an absolute insult.

Whilst “we” may not like the sentence, personally I’m glad that the sentencing guidelines don’t take into account the area the offender lives in.

And as for careless rather than dangerous driving – WTF?! This wasn’t a mistake. It wasn’t mechanical failure or loosing control on a patch of oil.

that’s right if it was mechanical, or hitting oil he’d most likely have been acquitted.

It was blatantly riding too fast through blind bends with no regard for anyone on the road ahead or coming the other way.

CPS, police and courts should be ashamed of themselves for this outcome.
Is the evidence that was available in court described somewhere? You have to remember the judicial system works on the basis of the actual evidence that is presented, not the claim that lots of riders treat that road like a race track, and its quite possible that the only evidence of careless driving on that specific occasion was he was on the wrong side of the road for one specific corner. Proving, beyond reasonable doubt, that he was doing so intentionally or consistently rather than misjudged one turn is hard without eye witnesses or video evidence.

Sentences can be a deterrent, a punishment, to enable rehabilitation or to protect the public. The only real reason for sending people to jail for DBCD / DBDD is as a punishment. If the aim is deterrence then it would be far better to focus on punishment for all the people who drive/ride that road in a similar manner and “get away without killing anyone” than the tiny number who do, as nobody is at the start of the journey thinking “its only 6 months inside if it goes wrong and I kill someone”. You can debate whether the sentencing is right for those less serious offences too, but from what others have said the prospects of getting caught are low. Is the purpose of local representation on councils and PCC’s not supposed to be that local issues / hot spots can get the focus they need? Have those who are irate and actually use that road shared their concerns with the relevant local agencies?

CPS, police and courts should be ashamed of themselves for this outcome

Is there some available evidence that the police failed to gather? If not, can you clarify what they should be ashamed of?

Unfortunately the media reports all seem to be based on the Lancs Police handout, so there’s no detailed reporting from the court.

I’d have liked to hear why the judge thought that sentence was appropriate, especially if it’s correct that only six months of the sentence was for that incident (the only source I found for that was Cycling Weekly).

personally and professionally 18 months for the police chase sounds about right and would sit just dandy with the court of appeal. The 6 months for the death by careless would be consistent with the guidelines (as would significantly more) but would have to be consecutive to make 24 not 18.
While I have every sympathy for the deceased I am more puzzled by the sentence for dangerous driving than the Death by due care.

Disgrace
Just had a mate run off his road bike (fractured ankle and ribs) by a young lad trying to overtake and avoid oncoming traffic at the same time. He had just returned to driving following a ban. Didn’t even look at my mate, lit up a cig instead.

Makes me genuinely angry. I don’t even think that prison, further token bans are the answer. They need a good kicking #bringbackthebirch.

I know the law is blind and if a judge was going to throw the book at someone you would have thought it would be at a spotty scumbag on a motorbike.
That 3 year ban is laughable as well.

Regarding Lancs CC targeting average speed cameras.

Here’s a list :- http://www.safe2travel.co.uk/speed?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn&utm_source=Twitter&utm_content=Average+speed+cameras+2017

Number 6 on that list is the current racetrack the A675, guess it’s just going to push them to do stupider things on Rivington Road 🙁

🙁

18 months so he will serve 9 ? 3yr driving ban. All of it’s a disgrace.

From time to time Imthink about a road bike or a CX and then something like this reminds me to stay off the road and just enjoy the countryside.

terrible road at the weekend and terrible that its other [motorised] cyclists who put us at the greatest risk

Never ride that bit on a weekend

Seems a very low sentence for a poor driver with proven disregard for others safety.

I agree 100 % Junkyard.

Shame it’s ruined by the Motorbikes as its a cracking road to ride and the Sheephouse climb certainly gets the blood pumping.

Weekdays mid morning or mid afternoons only for me as well.

If I ever decide to commit murder I am going to use a car or motorbike

just try and make sure its a judge or the senior CPS official.

Had words with my nephew who boasted about giving punishment passes. Young driver attitude really annoyed me. Apparently it’s the done thing amongst his mates these days, to pass cyclists as closely as possible. I doubt my words made any impact, they are (mostly), young, over confident, plenty of disposable income seemingly with parents who bail them out at every turn, no matter what.

RIP to the poor chap & thoughts are with his family.