So I picked up a new bike last month and have so far ridden only at trail centres (Afan Forest). Looking at my Strava I’ve done 13 rides. Cleaning it the other day noticed a lot of play in the front wheel so can only assume the bearings have gone as the maxle is still secured tight and no problem there.

I’ve just dropped it off at the shop I bought it from for its first service and the guy I handed it over to seemed to think this was pretty normal and something like this isn’t covered by any kind of warranty. So is this normal? Is it expensive to fix if I have to pay?

The bike’s an Orange five and not too sure of the wheel model but they’re Mavics. I’ve just forked out nearly £3K for a bike and I really thought the bearings would last a little longer than this. My old hardtail was only a £800 job and I never had a single problem with the wheels on there in over 3 years 🙁

Cheers all.

No easy way to break it to you but the whole bike is scrap now.

On a serious note we do get the odd wheel come back in with very few miles on the clock but these are mainly old fashioned cup and cone bearings.

on some Mavics you be able to take the play out (bit like cup & cone) but with cartridge bearings, so might not need to have them replaced unless they feel very rough, so might not of been don correctly from new and just “bedded in a little” and no should not really go in 18 rides, unless you jet washing the bike!

Age old question… how are you cleaning it?

Mavic wheels or just Mavic rims?

If its a Hope Pro 2, I’d say that was fairly average front bearing life.

I’ve destroyed the left side bearing (rotor side) of a hope pro 2 in two rides! I find that I was having to replace front wheel bearings with too regular a basis and since I’ve been running Fulcrum wheelsets on the hardtails and Mavic SX on the full suss, no bearing issues…..yet..but have kept the Hope Hubs as spares should I run into Mavic issues! 😆

Definitely not jet washing 😀 Usual wash process is garden hose set to a soft spreay. Soap the bike down with a sponge then soft spray off and dry with a towel. (I rather shamefully actually used to jet wash my old hardtail as well and never had a problem with bearings ha).

They could just be Mavic rims come to think of it, will have to check when I get it back.

Was really hoping to get more than 13 rides out of them though 😯

If its a Hope Pro 2, I’d say that was fairly average front bearing life.

Wow! Me, my mate & my lad have all been using Pro 2’s since 2011 (2 Orange 5’s & a Spesh) We ride all year round too so we must be just lucky.
I think I’m the only one of us who’s actually changed a bearing & that was in a rear Pro 2.

Big brake rotor and my body weight I believe were what was killing mine I believe.

Wow! Me, my mate & my lad have all been using Pro 2’s since 2011 (2 Orange 5’s & a Spesh) We ride all year round too so we must be just lucky.
I think I’m the only one of us who’s actually changed a bearing & that was in a rear Pro 2.
[/quote]Ah but you don’t have the years and years of bike mechanic experience that PP has. 😆

FWIW, I once changed a set of Pro2 bearings. That’s over several thousand miles though.

Only on my 2nd set of front Pro2 front bearings in 7yrs, 3 or 4 rides a week in all conditions, and pretty indiscriminate with the hose on my bike. Probably all irrelevant to the OP though, as i’d guess he has Formula Hubs and bearings that are fractionally loose on the axle.New bearings just to be sure, and a spot of retaining compound will usually sort it out.

it’s funny but some customers come back into the shop with the same wheels needing new bearings with alarming regularity and yet other guys come in who ride many more miles in harder conditions and never need bearings. The guys who do need them swear they don’t jet wash em, put em away wet etc, etc. Obviously some one is fibbing…

big discs and heavy riders will accelerate wear, but honestly a bearing should do you 5000 miles regardless.

Obviously some one is fibbing…

Or more likely there is another variable at play that has yet to be identified.
why, even if they lied about it when asked the first time, would someone continue to jetwash a bike if they knew it was going to cause problems and cost money?
manufacturing processes are rarely perfect. how about the odd duff one gets out the door? in the case of cartridge bearing hubs that are cnc machined for instance, if the tool doing the cutting is worn, the ID of the bearing seat is on the small side, and the bearings fitted is on the large side, the tolerance are going to work against you, and the bearing will be shafted in short order. just for instance.

anyway, i’m sure your bike will be fine OP.

If its a Hope Pro 2, I’d say that was fairly average front bearing life.

Well I’ve owned maybe five or six Pro 2 front hubs – and only had one with that sort of early failure. The rest got sold on or nicked before they needed a change.

I’m a very rare jetwasher though.

what Del says.

I jet wash the **** out of all my bikes, life’s to short to spend an age washing bikes, the only thing I keep destroying is PF30 BB’s but I doubt anyone has ever had one of those last longer than 3 rides… Take care where you’re directing the spray, don’t get too close and it’s reet. I reckon the chemicals/detergents some use cause far more damage than a jet wash.

No it’s not normal & it **** me off that it should be considered so. If you’re not jet washing the bearing directly and it fails after 16 miles of trail centre use then it’s not fit for purpose and is covered by the sales of goods act.

I had ths issue with my Stumpy 29er rear wheel – albeit after a few more miles but only about 6 monhs old.

The LBS refused to fix it under warranty on the basis the ‘bike’s beeen hammered’ !!!
It’s a mountainbike FFS! I’m not heavy, not rad & am old.

I contacted Specialized directly and the matter was swiftly resolved to my satisfaction.

The upshot is I’d always consider Spesh when buying a new bike but never buy as much as a spoke nipple from the LBS.

Don’t be fobbed off!

Yeah got a hope pro 2 evo here with premature life feeling gritty.

Is it not possible to remove, clean then regrease !?
As don’t fancy spending ££ on travelling to get bearings.

Now wishing I’d gone King for hubs but the Flow EX rims are great. (My first set of new hope built wheels)

You can remove the bearings, carefully pick out the seals to not damage them. Flush out as much as poss with a degreaser – even white spirit will do. Thoroughly dry (blow out with air-line if you have one) re-pack with grease, re-fit seals & off you go.

You don’t need to travel to buy – there’s nothing special about them so you can internet purchase.

The drive side bearing on my superstar rear hub doesn’t seem to last long. Its a complete git to press in too, so I think the bore is right at the bottom of the tolerance range. I reckon this means I am damaging it somehow during insallation, and the factory did too.

Not a superstar issue per-se as I think they are rebranded Novatech’s

The quality of bearings used often makes a huge difference, most OEM stuff will come with very cheap nasty bearings, replace them with something descent and you’ll have much improved life.

Stay away from the eBay tat too, most of them are very poor quality or in some cases counterfeit bearings.

Not all eBay bearings are gash… Katec have a good rep and the bearings are very good quality too.

+1
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/katecbikes/

In nearly 15 years of exclusively off road riding I’ve had maybe one bearing wear out through normal use after about 7.5 years on a set of m540 spuds. All my bearings die prematurely form water penetration and rust. There seems to be a correlation between high frequency riding and good bearing life, and I think that’s because the bearings get a fresh coating of grease from being used often and this protects them from rust. There’s a reason that Chris king stuff lasts so long and it’s not because of the seals – its stainless and can’t rust, so there bearing surfaces never become rough and you don’t see the accelerated wear through the system.

Has Anyone with a shimano ht2 bb put the bike up for a couple of weeks and come back to find the bb stiff? Case in point – standing water already in the bearing has had a chance to corrode a thick enough layer of rust to cause stiffness and binding. Sure you can force it round with leg power and it’ll free up, but you’re now running bearings with rough surfaces and their days are numbered.

So, if rust is the major killer of bearings due to water contact, that places a focus on decent grease that doesn’t emulsify with the water that will inevitably get past the seals of the bearing. If you’ve ever prised the seal off a bearing (a different topic of discussion in its own right according to some), you’ll see bugger all grease in there and it’s not waterproof. That’s beacause the bearings we all use in our bikes are designed for high rotational use in industrial machinery where grease film lubrication occurs in a clean and dry environment. Theres a load of air space in there ready to accept and hold any water that gets past the seals and create a lovely little pro-rust micro climate.

This is the reason that kaesae’s bearings are getting themselves a good reputation. He my be batshit mental, but he’s twigged that packing bearings with decent waterproof grease both excludes space for moisture to occupy and resists emulsification for longer than regular grease.

As far as I can see, good bearing life in the UK breaks down like this.

Packed bearings with good grease.
Frequent use to keep grease on the bearings ‘turned over’.
Use bearings that can’t rust.
Best bearing seals possible – some 2rs bearings have a wiper lip – others, if you look closely are a close tolerance fit and there is actually a small gap next to the inner race that does all the rotating.
Augment bearing protection with extra shielding where possible – anyone notice that ht2 bottom brackets predominantly fail on the NDS drive side first? No spider and rings to help shield it.
Obviously, blasting bucket loads of water and detergent into your bearings using a pressure washer is a bad idea, but bikes need to be cleaned, be judicious around pivots and hubs.

Not all Fives use pro 2 hubs- the last one I testrode had formulas in it. Not the really cheap crap cup-n-cone Formulas luckily but the higher quality cartridge bearings ones. Quite nice and IME better sealed than Hope, just as heavy as a brick.

it’s funny but some customers come back into the shop with the same wheels needing new bearings with alarming regularity and yet other guys come in who ride many more miles in harder conditions and never need bearings. The guys who do need them swear they don’t jet wash em, put em away wet etc, etc. Obviously some one is fibbing…

Maybe…but in my case my previous Stumpy, bought from the same shop, ridden on the same trails, washed in the same manner, was still on its original wheel bearings after 2 years when it got replaced. And they are fine (I still possess the bike). Likewise my previous bikes to that went for longer on the same bearings.

@scienceofficer

Great post and lots of truth to your statement

re HT2 bearing life on NDS, the typical reason is that when customers (or many mechanics!) install the HT2 cranks they often over tighten the plastic axle cap (its only supposed to receive 1-2nm) which damages the NDS bearing and dramatically shortens its working life.

Whenever I buy any new bearing or product with accessible bearings I carefully pop the shields and pack them full of pm600 military spec grease which was recommended to me several years ago by SRAM factory technicians.

Especially for the lower headset bearing of my road and mountain bikes as that bearing takes a constant onslaught in wet weather.

Many shops and distributors see bearings as ‘consumables’ as the truth of what the customer has done to their bike is debatable, but considering the s..t quality bearings with minimal grease many brands use even in expensive suspension frames, wheels, components..

I’ve always argued for the customer when making a warranty claim on a product less than 6 months old, or the shop has ended up writing off bearing and labour as goodwill if distributor has refused to play ball.

Interesting thread this. I agree with the fact that bearings are not packed with grease and this causes issues.

Ive got a question regarding my hope pro 2 evo rear hub. The wheel spins really nicely but if you take the wheel out there seems to be some drag on the axle. is this normal?

@andybrad

the drag you are experiencing is often the friction in the bearing seals (INA) which are good quality, people often comment that Hope wheels “roll slowly”.

with the wheel mounted in the frame and spun, the weight of the wheel will easily overcome the breakaway friction (stiction) of these seal, if you turn the axle by hand you can easily feel this friction

Yeah, pro 2 is a fairly draggy design. It’s nothing to worry about though, the actual amount of drag is real-world buggerall. Unless you’re Chris Porter probably 😉

I jet wash the **** out of all my bikes, life’s to short to spend an age washing bikes, the only thing I keep destroying is PF30 BB’s but I doubt anyone has ever had one of those last longer than 3 rides… Take care where you’re directing the spray, don’t get too close and it’s reet. I reckon the chemicals/detergents some use cause far more damage than a jet wash.

FTFY

My bearings last quite a while. Well, with a couple of noteable (not so) cheep exceptions.

@Northwind

Heh. His bike’s so long it can’t be stored in a normal garage, it goes in the hanger

Many shops and distributors see bearings as ‘consumables’

And as a matter of fact they are. A bearing don’t fail after a couple of rides. It is bugger up from the factory or one way or the other you’ve fouck it up.
For example DT SWISS warranty on bearing after 3 month is none, it’s a part that is subject to wear and therefore non subject to warranty.

@juan

however shops and distributors see it (and many mechanics and technical consumers understand the issues) the problem is that short bearing life runs smack up against the Sales of Goods Act and what a consumer can expect as a reasonable timeframe for durability.

If you took another consumer product, and told a customer they’d expect the product (i.e. electric drill or washing machine) to have bearing failure within 3 months of intended use, they’d be within their rights to seek replacement at no cost, or refund of purchase

yet, because its a bicycle, its somehow different? I am playing devil’s advocate here 😉

Perhaps, what this really tells us is that the bicycle industry expects to get away with offering a piss poor product, and the consumer should bear the brunt of the cost of that.

Yesterday at work? I had a guy bring a road bike back he purchased the month before. The freehub was making loud crackling noises when turning the cranks on the workstand. I stripped the rear wheel hub and found the freehub moving up and down on its mounting spline. This was on a £2,000 bike, and the bike was in good condition.

I know its a “cheap” wheelset in terms of quality, but the customer has spent £2,000 on a bicycle, and the freehub has failed within a month. Its been forwarded to the distributor as a warranty claim.

My wheel bearing failure was discovered during the PF30 bearing replacement.
I’d already got the message these are pretty poor so for vthe sake of 9 quids worth of bearings from my local stockist I decided to replace them myself despite the young age of the bike.
This was to make sure it was serviceable and also be a learning process for me as I assumed it was going to be a regular job (zooms back in time >20 years to loose caged balls & cups bottom brackets).
BB taken care of I then noticed play in the rear wheel.
I was going to fix this myself too.
Off with the freehub and all was spotless within but I would need another allen key and possibly some other kit.
That’s the point reality struck and I wondered why I should be doing this to a £2500 bike with a coupla hundred miles on it – I certainly wouldn’t entertain it with a washing machine or owt else.
As said – the bike shop refused to do it under warranty as the bike’s been hammered.