baaaaaad condensation/ mould - which dehumidifier?

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baaaaaad condensation/ mould - which dehumidifier?

61 posts & 33 voices | Started 4 months ago by sadexpunk | Latest reply from Edukator

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sadexpunk - Member

asked for advice on here and chucked some pictures up a couple of years ago now i think. from your advice it looked like bad condensation. i got a builder in, 2 airbricks in the worst room (our bedroom) and thought thats all i can do really.

since then we've still had black mould on window corners/ sills (in just about all the rooms) and the most confusing thing for me is.... its worse around the air bricks!! i fact its awful. and in the bathroom, the window opens at the top, and theres mould growing on the ceiling now where the air comes in!!

what i dont understand is, why, when we're told ventilations the key, is it worse where the air is?? theres none in the hidden corners, behind wardrobes etc, but really bad where theres air!

its come to a head now when the sparky we got rewiring the house has pointed out hes found out that one of my lads floors soaking. carpets not wet, but the underlay is soaking. stand on it and theres a wet footprint. and mould on the skirting and creeping up the wall.

we've got the water board coming soon to check for leaks, but from what everyones saying is its the old enemy condensation again. obviously the air bricks not made any difference.

house is relatively modern (60s), we open windows regularly, we got air bricks, all i can think of is a powerful dehumidifier next.

wifes seen this one. anyone got any advice on these, or any condensation advice at all? itll prob go in the hall, so wants to look fairly decent as well as able to cope with a house with the humidity of monsoon season in the jungle :-/

thanks

Posted 4 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

reason it's worse where the air comes in is that it cools the surrounding plaster/brickwork which the water vapour in the air then condenses on so those bits are wetter than everywhere else.

Personally, I can't believe you're getting sodden underlay just through condensation.

If it's as bad as it looks I'd get one of the non-condensing ones in each bedroom as they're quiet and a bigger one in a hallway.

also consider taping clear plastic over a section of floor - if you get condensation on the inside it's damp coming up through, not condensing on it. Get a proper damp survey done...

Posted 4 months ago #
Stoner - Member

that much moisture sounds more like a water source inside the house than vapour condensing...

Sounds grim. Sorry not got much I can help with, although if you're near Malvern, I have a dehumidifier I no longer use you can have,

Posted 4 months ago #
TooTall - Member

You are way beyond needing a dehumidifier - you have real problem(s) there. Healthy houses do not have mould, do not have wet patches and do not need dehumidifiers. Air bricks are also not problem solvers in themselves and the behaviour of the occupants, house position, outside environment etc all have a part to play on this sort of thing. That level of mould is seriously unhealthy and can eventually lead to problems for the occupants. As said above, there might be dampness below the house, there might be a leak somewhere - loads of possibles. A dehumidifier would be a sticking plaster on a problem that needs a cure.

Posted 4 months ago #
don simon - Member

That level of mould is seriously unhealthy and can eventually lead to problems for the occupants.

100% agree with this, I attribute my lung problems to damp and mould in a property I lived in.
I'd look at the dehumidifier as being a short term solution to the problem until you can find the root cause, which does sound like water getting in.

Posted 4 months ago #
druidh - Member

There was an item on the "Rip off Britain" TV programme this week where a woman had her home "cavity insulated" and it was caused almost this level of problem. She was having to open doors and windows just to get enough airflow.

Posted 4 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

are the rooms with the damp on the first floor?

Posted 4 months ago #
don simon - Member

There was an item on the "Rip off Britain" TV programme this week where a woman had her home "cavity insulated" and it was caused almost this level of problem. She was having to open doors and windows just to get enough airflow.

Interesting. I'd be quite interested in knowing how the cavity wall insulation can do this. Does it explain this point in the prog? (Not sure that I want to waste 30 mins of my life).

Posted 4 months ago #
spooky_b329 - Member

Well you might as well rip up the carpet and underlay as its sodden anyway, that will remove a large stored amount of water. This might then help trace the source of the leak (as it does sound like a leak)

Posted 4 months ago #
mastiles_fanylion - Member

Interesting. I'd be quite interested in knowing how the cavity wall insulation can do this. Does it explain this point in the prog? (

I guess the simple answer is similar to the rule about not pushing insulation right into the eaves in your loft as it stops airflow. The cavities must perform a degree of ventilation and blocking them up (same as blocking up fireplaces etc) could be a contributing factor with damp issues.

Posted 4 months ago #
irc - Member

I bought a house once where the previous owner had tried to cope with damp by repapering after covering the wall plaster in one area with a rubber solution. The wet wall was directly inside the place where a flat roofed porch was which was a red herring. I eventually found the cause of the damp to be that someone had replaced a floorboard after doing work at a radiator and had put a nail through a pipe causing a slow but ongoing leak.

If you can narrow the damp problem to one area then inspecting the central heating piping is worth doing. It's a big job but you have a big problem.

Posted 4 months ago #
druidh - Member

ds - moisture that would have traversed the gap in the cavity, then, condensed on the inside of the outer wall layer and been removed through ventilation was now condensing on the inside of the inner wall layer.

Posted 4 months ago #
midlifecrashes - Member

Unless it's a poky place and you cook loads on the hob with no lids and constantly have clothes drying, I'd be looking for a leak.

Posted 4 months ago #
don simon - Member

I guess the simple answer is similar to the rule about not pushing insulation right into the eaves in your loft as it stops airflow. The cavities must perform a degree of ventilation and blocking them up (same as blocking up fireplaces etc) could be a contributing factor with damp issues.

Just watched the prog and it talks about the lack of designed ventilation and that the cavity wall insulation only highlighted an existing problem of poor house design. So clearly any isulation that is going to block or prevent the building from breathing is going to cause problems, but somehow I don't think this is the OP's problem.
Something on airflow in buildings.

Posted 4 months ago #
will - Member

I'll be following this with interest. i have a similar problem, and the landlord is being less than helpful...

I'll put soem pics up later if thats cool with the OP.

Posted 4 months ago #
Rockdodger - Member

I have used a dehumidifier for a lot of years during the winter months and they do a terrific job. The one i use is an ebac 2580. It also drys the washing at the same time.
http://www.ebacdirect.com/product.php?productid=28&gclid=CLmh87HJ3q0CFcshtAodzzWNdw

Posted 4 months ago #
grtdkad - Member

Stoner YGM

Posted 4 months ago #
ahwiles - Member

you have damp walls because you have cold walls.

the warmish air in your house carries lots of moisture - this condenses on the cold walls.

more so where the walls are coldest.

i guess:

you have no insulation in your walls.

and, your house has been plastered with modern plaster - this stuff doesn't breathe.

i could well be wrong, but if so, you either need to insulate, or replaster with something breathable.

its come to a head now when the sparky we got rewiring the house has pointed out hes found out that one of my lads floors soaking. carpets not wet, but the underlay is soaking. stand on it and theres a wet footprint. and mould on the skirting and creeping up the wall.

does sound like a leak...

what floor is it on? (ground level, 1st floor, etc.)

Posted 4 months ago #
sadexpunk - Member

just a bit of an update. just had water board round who confirm theres no leak, and its pretty certain its condensation. also spoke to 'peter cox' who are experts in damp, who also say theyre sure its condensation. (although they havent seen it)

just to answer a couple of questions, its the ground floor, the insulation leaves a bit of air to circulate. it also has cavity wall insulation. it was my parents hous, and my dad had it put in in the seventies. there were 5 in the house then with no problems, against 4 of us now, so im just still astounded it can be this bad when it never has been before.

will, of course i dont mind you posting pics. id be interested to see them and compare against my problem.

i spose i got to concentrate on the condensation solution now. i know dehumidifiers may be a sticking plaster, but talking to some others, theyve reduced their problem with them so i dont have much else i can do.

so the original question remains....... any recommendations? is the one in my first post about as good as i can get for the money?

thanks a lot

Posted 4 months ago #
Cougar - Member

Useful reading before you buy a dehumidifier:

http://www.airandwatercentre.com/blog/119/desiccant-or-compressor-driven-dehumidifier/

Posted 4 months ago #
infidel - Member

Ebac - we live in an ancient house which suffers badly from damp/condensation and we use an ebac unit through the winter which has almost stopped the damp. That plus religious wiping of window sills before bed!

Posted 4 months ago #
IHN - Member

just to answer a couple of questions, its the ground floor, the insulation leaves a bit of air to circulate. it also has cavity wall insulation. it was my parents hous, and my dad had it put in in the seventies. there were 5 in the house then with no problems, against 4 of us now, so im just still astounded it can be this bad when it never has been before

So you have to ask yourself what's changed structurally between then and now, and especially in the twelve or so months up to the point at which you started noticing problms.

Posted 4 months ago #
sadexpunk - Member

thanks cougar, just reading that now.

So you have to ask yourself what's changed structurally between then and now, and especially in the twelve or so months up to the point at which you started noticing problms.

absolutely nothing

Posted 4 months ago #
nixie - Member

We have condensation problems, though not to the same extent that you do. We were getting light mould build up on the bedroom windows, and lots of condensation on the inside of the windows and window recess (so much so that when I painted the paint ran off the walls). I bought a dehumidifier (ebac 2850 one linked above) about 2 months ago and a temp/humidity monitor. So far things appear to have improved. Previously on cold mornings there was very noticeable condensation on the windows and the recess walls were damn. Now we are getting only very minor condensation at the very bottom of the glass. The walls appear to be drying out nicely. At around the same time we also started closing the bathroom door after showers and leaving the window open in there for longer (allowing more of the post shower moisture to escape out the window).

Ideally I don't want to have the dehumidifier, however there does not appear to be another solution in this house (other than a house wide heat exchange ventilation system).

Posted 4 months ago #
Squirrel - Member

Sounds like a plumbing leak to me. Is the ground floor solid (concrete) or suspended (timber)? If solid are there heating or other pipes bedded in it? If so they could have corroded, started leaking and be soaking the floor. Moisture will then evaporate from the floor and condense in the coldest parts of your house. If it is suspended are there airbricks below floor level outside and are they free-flowing? They are there to help dispel moisture under the house. If the floor is suspended find a way into it (take up a floorboard) to see if there is water underneath.Be very wary of damp-proofing "experts": they have a vested interest in selling you a damp-proofing system which may not be appropriate to your problem.

Take a look at you lifestyle: lots of boiling, drying clothes indoors, tumble-drying without an external outlet, baths, leaving the bathroom door open after a shower of bath, using a portable "Calor Gas" type heaters all produce large amounts of water vapour which will form condensation on cold surfaces.

Yes, you need ventilation but you need heating too.

I still think it's a plumbing leak. If you are anywhere near South Buckinghamshire I could take a look for you.

Posted 4 months ago #
sadexpunk - Member

theres no leak. been confirmed by anglian water. the floors concrete with tiles on top. cant say for sure where the pipes are i spose they must be embedded some way, but ive never been told and theres nothing obvious.

as far as dehumidifiers go, i spose theres got to be a fine line between getting rid of excess moisture and waking up in the morning all wrinkled up and unable to speak

ta

Posted 4 months ago #
Squirrel - Member

Anglian will presumably have just checked the water main? Even if they went further it is extremely difficult to identify whether a pipe buried in a concrete floor is leaking, especially with tiles on top. Have a look to see whether the radiator pipes drop into the floor.

Posted 4 months ago #
sadexpunk - Member

radiator pipes come from the loft. but im not sure where they start. think its all done from roof void tho.

im guessing a good measure of whether any pipes are leaking is if the water meter dial goes round when everythings switched off. which it doesnt

thanks

Posted 4 months ago #
slackalice - Member

Condensation is a result of different air temperatures. What temperature do you have the central heating set to?

If the walls are insulated, what is the state of roof insulation? It packs down after a while and could do with being checked?

Could indeed be rising damp too. A break in the damp proof course or the membrane beneath the concrete floor - a moisture meter will narrow that down for you.

If I may suggest, before splashing out on some sticking plasters in the form of de-humidifiers, get a couple of specialist opinions - there are bound to be some local historical building surveyors and make sure they are historical buildings peeps, or get a damp-proofing firm or two to come round and check - bearing in mind their ulteria motives. Both should check with their pointy moisture meters.

Hope that helps.

Posted 4 months ago #
TooTall - Member

im guessing a good measure of whether any pipes are leaking is if the water meter dial goes round when everythings switched off. which it doesnt

Nope. It doesn't take much of a steady drip to cause water problems and it could be a cistern / central heating pipe / lots of other things. Anglian wouldn't check your plumbing beyond where it enters the house I guess and not a CH system.

If it didn't used to happen in the house and it does now, something has changed. Whether that is something that is part of the house or the behaviour of the occupants, something is causing it and needs fixing. If it damages the house structurally in the long term you have a massive problem to deal with.

Posted 4 months ago #
project - Member

Fit a slow running xpelair fan, to an outside wall, witha humistat, also find the stiop tap, and turn all taps off, put a screwfdiver to the stoptap, and put your ear to the screwdriver and listen for wooshing or water noise, if you can hear someting you have a leak.

ear to the handle of the screwdiver, or you may do yourself an injury.

Posted 4 months ago #
pjm84 - Member

Sounds way too much for condensation. Does the situation change with the seasons?

Posted 4 months ago #
tinribz - Member

We had it real bad in the bathroom and bedrooms, got a compressor one and it filled up with water but that never solved the problem. And open windows don't help either.

What we did in order of effectiveness:

The correct bathroom (shower) extractor fan and keeping the door shut.

A low watt electric radiator on a timer in the bathroom.

Wickes anti-mould paint.

Keeping the kitchen door shut, windows open when cooking or the dryer is on.

Wiping down the inside of the windows in the morning.

Dehumidifier

Opening windows an hour a day.

Train the children to put towels in the freakin washing basket.

Edit - reckon there was a leak in the bath overflow too sometimes its hard to tell, replaced the pipes anyway.

Posted 4 months ago #
LenHankie - Member

As above, there's no way that you should have sodden carpets from condensation only.

We had mould problems in a 60's 2 bed double glazed ground floor flat we rented a few years ago. There's only so much you want to have the windows open during mid winter. A dehumidifer helped a bit, but what pretty much solved the problem overnight was the addition of a good sized airbrick (about the size of 2 standard bricks) in each of the rooms with external walls - one in the living room and the dining room at one side of the flat and another in our bedroom at the other side - therefore allowing a flow of air all the way through the property. Getting a condensing tumble dryer rather than drying clothes in the flat during winter also made a massive difference.

As you seem to have the ventilation side nailed, I'd say there has to be water getting in somewhere. Warm air rises - so why would it condense to that extent on the carpet? Cold floor tiles perhaps.

Posted 4 months ago #
Ginger - Member

First thing is to get rid of the carpet and underlay. If its that wet then you need it out before doing anything. It will immediately improve the air quality in the room. We managed to wreck a mattress by drying washing nearby as it acted as a giant sponge - once it was out the house we then address the excess moisture in the house that was causing bad mould on the ground floor windows. We got an ebac full on dehumidifier and it solved our problem. To be fair it was partly created by us drying so much washing but that seems hand in hand with a baby.

Ebac was fairly expensive but very well designed and earned its price in improved air quality and much easier heating. Mould has disappeared. It is designed to leave on all the time, which works well for us and was important as MrGinger worries about leaving things plugged in/running in terms of potential fire hazards. I would definitely recommend the brand.

I sympathise with what you are going through. I found it such a general source of a worry but getting the water out the atmosphere, although only treating the result not cause, just took away the anxiety and stress. I couldn't believe the difference. Can't believe how long it took for us to do this though.

Posted 4 months ago #

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