“there comes a time, when it’s simply not safe to fly” (quoted fom a BAA spokesman).

Yes, and when we look around the world at airports in far colder and snowier places than London (much of the US, various airports in Europe and so on), we see that that time has not yet even suggested that it’s approaching. -3C and a clear runway are NOT grounds for shutting the busiest airport in Europe. Unless, I guess, the airport operator has resolutely refused to invest in any equipment for cold weather, despite a succession of snowy winters.

grrrrrrr…….

I think you’ll have to blame the Spanish for this, after all they do own BAA.

nicko74 – Member
despite a succession of snowy winters.

Well, 2….

Personally, I think they should get loads more winter equipment in and then increase the airport landing fees to cover the cost. That way, all the whingers who can’t get anywhere can pay for it in increased fares.

http://www.icepilots.com/

These blokes fly round Canada all the time !!

Sod the ice clearing kit. I want to see a 747 running on skids.

I’m not convinced the general public understand that sometimes we can’t always get what we want…
These are pretty exceptional conditions

Trains into kings cross now stuffed too. Anything on the East Coast Mainline is terminating at Peterborough.

Would the grumblers be happy to stump up an extra £10* per flight (every flight, 365 days a year) to have a heated runway and bunch more kit to clear the place? Would they also be prepared to guarantee they had winter tyres on their car so that the car parks could remain open despite being covered in snow and ice just so that the airport can stay open for another 3 or 4 days a year?

Same applies to roads – better facilites and more manpower to ensure the roads remain open for those tough 5-10 days a year but stump up 2p* in the pound more on tax – choice is yours when you next vote.

* spurious figures made up on the spot but you get the gist.

Convert +1

Personal responsibility. For everyone. Including Daily Mail readers.

well having never flown anywhere from Heathrow*, and not likely to in the near or middle-distance future, I certainly wouldn’t be prepared to pay for its winterisation through my taxes.

Let the fare-paying passengers that actually use the airport pay for its upkeep.

*Leeds-Bradford is my airport of choice; at a pinch Manchester

No need to clear the runways, just use a large conveyor belt.

+1 for Convert
but I would make the point we just had 13 years of a ‘the state will provide for you’ government and I’m not sure the winter transport situation was any better

No need to clear the runways, just use a large conveyor belt.

With the aircraft’s brakes on…!!?

+1 for Convert. Stop whining man.

APF

Unless, I guess, the airport operator has resolutely refused to invest in any equipment for cold weather, despite a succession of snowy winters.

Your incisive points about business and the weather patterns have been, erm, something. Come back when you have understood what you have read elsewhere.

These are pretty exceptional conditions

er… except they’re not – it’s happened before. Earlier this winter. Last year. The year before. Apparently the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result – BAA would seem to fit the bill.

we’ve not had constant sub-zero over a number of days like this for as long as I can remember (born in 1973) and certainly for the last 20 years winters have been warm and mild.
Forecasters are saying that if winter carries on like this it will be the coldest winter for 100 years. We’ve only had commercial air travel in any numbers since the 50s so I’d argue that for people who run UK airports this is exceptional, it’s never been this bad in all the time they’ve been in existence so of course they’re not set up for it…
BBC reporter was trying to make the spokesman for BAA look a fool yesterday by attempting to put it they were cr&p for not being able to get planes to fly. The spokesman was standing outside Heathrow in a blizzard.
Go figure! I wish people had a bit more perspective

We’ve had ’20 year storms’ back to back. You can’t predict that sort of weather happening. The worst November / December for what – 50 years? You simply cannot predict or plan for that with anything other than contingency plans. We are not a continental country therefore we do not get the same weather as N America, Canada and mainland Europe. They know, within a week, when snow will arrive, how long, how deep and when it will end. We can’t. To have millions of pounds of rsources ‘just in case’ would bankrupt the country and the companies far worse than anything at present. You have no idea of the cost or the effort to keep even one runway open.

all i hope is that easyjet are flying on the 31st from london so the gf can come and visit 🙁

Unless, I guess, the airport operator has resolutely refused to invest in any equipment for cold weather, despite a succession of snowy winters.

we’ve not had constant sub-zero over a number of days like this for as long as I can remember (born in 1973) and certainly for the last 20 years winters have been warm and mild.
Forecasters are saying that if winter carries on like this it will be the coldest winter for 100 year

Funnily enough, we’ve also spent the last decade being told that the end of the world was nigh, and that Global warming would see the end of snow in the UK, that our children would grow up having never seen snow, and that there was no need to invest in snow clearing equipment as we would not need it except in very, very rare events… 🙄

Ah but Z11 – there’s also that “new ice-age” theory related to climate change too….

Yes, the “new ice age theory” that’s at least 10 years old.
If you want continental style winter preparedness it’ll cost hundreds of millions, for what? Maybe 5-10 days a year?
Anyway Ferrovial borrowed so much money to buy BAA that they’re trying desperately to offload pieces of it.

They spent £6m on improving Heathrow’s winter response, apparently.

Yesterday the weather was very bad, and even in a snowy country that would have caused problems.

Contrary to popular belief, in snowy countries they do have snow disruption, but they don’t whine about it because it’s part of life. When I started going to Wisconsin in late November, I would often plan long trips to go and see stuff. My wife’s family all advise me not to plan anything and not to go too far away because there might be weather problems. It’s a part of life, they take disruption in their stride. We on the other hand have become used to being able to ignore the weather.

You plan to be able to deal with 99% (say) of weather events, wherever you live. In snowy countries that 1% constitutes more snow than our 1% but that’s immaterial.

Oh and FWIW we in Cardiff currently have the same amount of snow as my wife’s folks in Wisconsin.

seen the title and thought this was about sheep.

Funnily enough, we’ve also spent the last decade being told that the end of the world was nigh, and that Global warming would see the end of snow in the UK

Yet again, for the hard of understanding: Weather is not the same as climate.

Heathrow ordered de-icing stuff last year after the chaos, with the equipment due to arrive in January. However, the weather didn’t play nicely and arrived early. Oh dear.

The Beeb ran a story about being at Birmingham airport being stuck on a plan for 9 hours. How on earth can it take more than an hour to realise the plane is going nowhere and let the poor sods off?

if you can get past the sensational headlines youll find that their are major delays in france, switzerland etc, etc airports and trains all having issues in europe..
Europe in winters quite cold shocker…

Yet again, for the hard of understanding: Weather is not the same as climate.

However Climate is an average of weather… 🙄

Tell you what Molgrips, why don’t you go ahead and deny that Ten years ago, we were being told that…

“According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia, within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”.

“Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,” he said.

David Parker, at the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research in Berkshire, says ultimately, British children could have only virtual experience of snow. Via the internet, they might wonder at polar scenes – or eventually “feel” virtual cold.

Now then, you were saying?

I have a very simple, cheap and widely available answer to the whole British winter transport problem. I learnt this some years ago.

It’s simple. From the end of November to end of March I dont fly from the UK unless it’s a life and death matter. Even then if I have to – absolutely have to- I connect through a European hub.

If everyone had the same approach – well I’m not sure what the outcome would be.

Anyways, the memory of spending Christmas on my own in a shitty hotel will eternally stop me flying at this time of year.

How on earth can it take more than an hour to realise the plane is going nowhere and let the poor sods off?

It’s not just one plane though. That plane needs to be in [destination] so it can take another planeload of people off to somewhere else and the crew can run another flight to a third destination. Rule is that you minimise the disruption to the maximum number of people. If there is a chance that that plane can get off the ground at short notice you take it, otherwise it’s a massive waste of time and effort to load the plane up, get it to the runway only to turn the thing round, unload everyone and their baggage, re-brief the pilots to a possible alternative , find another plane to be at [destination], find another crew to take the slot. One airport closing for a day will ruin flights all across Europe as a domino effect.

Just watched this on the news. Have you seen the amount of unattended baggage. Security nightmare.

It’s simple. From the end of November to end of March I dont fly from the UK unless it’s a life and death matter. Even then if I have to – absolutely have to- I connect through a European hub.

If everyone had the same approach – well I’m not sure what the outcome would be.
I’d guess that one outcome would be that a lot of ski resorts would go bust! Personally I do most of my flying between November and March.

Personally I do most of my flying between November and March.

mmm. Hadnt thought about that! Still you can ski in Scotland. If you can get there on the roads 🙁

um not just us! mate workds for BA in Washington – they have run out of de-icer so no flights from there as its a bit chilly!!

However Climate is an average of weather…

Record heatwave in australia january 2009
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1876299,00.html

If you’re going to take an average, you probably need to look at the standard deviation too!

If you want continental style winter preparedness it’ll cost hundreds of millions, for what? Maybe 5-10 days a year?

A but we’re told that this weather is costing the British economy £1.6B a day

yet

Local councils spent £138m last year on clearing snow and ice. The Highways Agency spends another £30m on average.

So say the bad weather lasts 5 days a year and happens once every 10 years at a cost of £8bn then we could afford to increase spend clearing the roads to from £188M to £800M a year and still break even.

Sweden there was some bemusement that the UK had ground to a halt. At Stockholm’s Arlanda airport its three runways can be cleared in six to 10 minutes – making it the fastest snow-clearing airport in the world

Heathrow must pull in way more revenue than Arlanda and any downtime is bound to cost Heathrow more. so why can’t they put the investment in especially as Heathrow only has two runways?

Heathrow must pull in way more revenue than Arlanda and any downtime is bound to cost Heathrow more. so why can’t they put the investment in especially as Heathrow only has two runways?

Did you not read my previous post?
Anyway, been quite pleasant today – no planes, there’s more snow forecast for tomorrow afternoon so should be nice in the evening too.

he he. I was down London on Friday/Saturday. The snow started falling when I was there and so everything shut down. Any train heading south was cancelled, any plane trying to land was sent somewhere else. Must have been 2 inches on the ground.

I got on my train (heading North) and the snow just got heavier and heavier. We had to stop a couple of times as train brakes froze up and the driver was asked to check on icicles hanging from power cables but I got there about an hour behind schedule. The platform at wigan was almost a foot deep in snow. Everything seemd to be working just fine. Even my wife who is a nervous driver at the best of times, seemed perfectly fine with picking me up from the station.