Hello

Recently been sticking to the 50mph speed limit of average camera sections on a couple of motorways( no roadworks going on)only to find traffic flying past. In the first incident it took me three passes of cameras to finally see a 'camera not in use' sign. Cars had also slowed behind me too, only to speed up again upon reading the sign. Meanwhile almost all other more knowedgable road user were just flying past at 70. Today, see 50 signs and slow down to agreed limit. Again a few behind me did whilst almost everthing else flew past.

Presumably the cameras are only active during roadworks?

On the M6 before Christmas there were about 5 sets of roadworks with ave speed cameras between the Border and the M56, over christmas most of these camers were removed but the speed limit signs and the reduction to 2 lanes remained.
If you knew the road a lot of people just ignored the signs – whilst other law abiding types stick to the limit.

Presumably the cameras are only active during roadworks?

If there's a limit posted, and no notice to say the cameras aren't in use, then that's a pretty risky thing to assume (I'm not even sure how much I'd trust a "not in use" sign given a 50 limit).

You certainly still seem to get people speeding through these sections, and even some speeding but braking for the average speed cameras – though much less than you used to (you have to assume many of those who used to have got a nice letter from the SCP). Not worth taking the chance IMHO even if lots of others are.

On the M6 before Christmas there were about 5 sets of roadworks with ave speed cameras between the Border and the M56, over christmas most of these camers were removed but the speed limit signs and the reduction to 2 lanes remained.

Another 3 sets between the M56 and M5 – seems a popular bit of road for roadworks at the moment! From what I could see, all of those still had cameras though.

If it bothers you, just drive at the speed you want. I'll stick to the speed they say, just in case like. It's normally only a couple of miles so speeding will save me about oooh, 3 seconds and my car has cruise control so I don't even have to think about it.

You can churn the M1 section around Nottingham at 60 quite happily.

Does anyone know anyone who's ever got a ticket from an average speed camera? I travel through various sets a lot but have never heard/met anyone who's been done?

Two types of average speed cameras Specs and SVDD.

Not all at roadworks, eg. large section of Welsh M4 between Js 23-29 has them (50mph limit)

Yes there have been plenty of successful prosecutions, photographic evidence shows timed photos between two measured points.

just stay in the middle lane and drive at 60mph, no more, no less.

I see a lot of drivers don't understand how average speed works, they blat along and only slow down at the cameras.

"…..you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

kongman28 – Member
Does anyone know anyone who's ever got a ticket from an average speed camera?

No, I've often thought the same

I seem to remember reading a while back that if you went past an average speed scamera in,say,lane 1,then changed to,say lane 2,for the second camera then you could 'beat the system'.
Probably just an urban myth though.

Never done it myself though,as I just set the cruise control for the restricted sections,nice tunes on the stereo and chill…

Gary_C – Member
I seem to remember reading a while back that if you went past an average speed scamera in,say,lane 1,then changed to,say lane 2,for the second camera then you could 'beat the system'.
Probably just an urban myth though.

Myth, surely, as with technology nowadays they'd be able to just work off an ANPR type system , so regardless of what lane you are in, if your number travels between the two fixed points too quickly, it'll pick that up – can't see changing lanes being of any help in avoiding the cameras.

Not a myth, was/is true.

Next generation of camera supposed to work off all three lanes.

Edit: Actually it was down to how the cameras had been approved for use. Now lane changing approval has been given.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECS_%28speed_camera%29

I tend to find the 50 sections quite relaxing. I have to drive the slow bit on the Welsh M4 quite a bit, and it feels a lot nicer to drive than it used to at 70. As a few have set, set the cruise, turn up the music and all is well.

Tuck in close behind a truck for the cameras and then rag it to the next one. That seemed to be the M6 policy yesterday for those with phat exhausts.

True, fair enough, just seems too simplistic a way of avoiding the camera considering that they use ANPR technology. I'd always assumed they used used a fixed entry/exit point and regardless of lane you entered on it was your time on the fixed distance that mattered.

How do the average speed camera system work then when they cover the slip roads – believe I saw this on the M1 roadworks in 2007 & 2008??

Lets face it more often than not the traffic flows better and more safely within the average speed cameras as all the lorry drivers obey them too.
Oh and its not just between the cameras one after the other it can be done between any cameras within that section of average cameras to the best of my knowledge.
As for defeating the system I aint even going to go there!

I think the majority (all?) of police forces apply the 'limit +10%+2' rule for speeders to allow for variations in speedo's. Add that to the fact that speedos are calibrated to show a slightly higher than actual speed and you can get a great variation in what folk consider to e 50MPH.

My sat nav says 54, speedo shows 50. if the cameras are set to 57ish, then i can be doing 58 on the Satnav and be fairly sure i'm under – especially if i set the cruise control – no danger of slowly exceeding the limit.

i could then be doing almost 15-20% more than some folk who were keeping their speed under 50 on their speedo. i guess to them i looked like i was flying along.

All I can say is that i used to drive a set of permanent 50average speed roads almost every week using the above and never had a ticket.

Then i realised that i was saving 30 seconds or so on a journey and stopped trying to eke out as much as i could from the system and stopped being a cock 🙂

For me, just hit 55 on the cruise and roll – I can make up time before/after easier.

Beware some forces only use 10%!!!!!!! No leeway on the plus 2%.

Does anyone know anyone who's ever got a ticket from an average speed camera?

No, I've often thought the same [/quote]

I've always thought that these average speed cameras were probably a sham. I am very doubtful of the ability of the UK authorities to be able to accurately apply this kind of technology in a real world situation, when they still struggle with some of the simpler traffic control techologies, for example, grit.

Analogue Andy – you say there have been a lot of successful prosecutions, is there anywhere these records/stats are available online?

Average speed cameras on A80/M73 at the moment.
I join at slip road so by missing first camera the second one is meaningless as to what speed I am doing much to the annoyance of those restricted for the last few miles.

HTH

whats the worce thing thats gonna happen , other dick head drivers are going to point and laff , cos your doing the speed limmit,arrive alive

I am very doubtful of the ability of the UK authorities to be able to accurately apply this kind of technology

Watch any "Brit/Traffic Cops In Action/Frontline/Wars" type show and you'll see ANPR technology being used from within cars, vans and from fixed cameras.

That bit definitely works and that's the hard bit. To automatically calculate the speed from that all you'd need is a timer and a note of how far apart the cameras are. Not rocket science.

FWIW to the OP: I stick to the speed limit in these sections, regardless of whether the cameras are in operation or not, and happily ignore the muppets that shoot past me. 🙂

My sat nav says 54, speedo shows 50. if the cameras are set to 57ish, then i can be doing 58 on the Satnav and be fairly sure i'm under

Either you've got an unusually dodgy satnav or an illegal speedo. Satnav should be very accurate, being based on GPS speed, certainly <1% error. Meanwhile whilst your speedo is allowed to be a bit inaccurate, it's only allowed to over-read – if it's really under-reading as would be suggested by that if the satnav is accurate, then it's illegal.

On the basis that the satnav is accurate, personally I certainly wouldn't take the risk of travelling at 58mph on it. Bearing in mind that not only do some forces not add the extra 2mph to their threshold, but also that they have no obligation to add any leaway at all, and can do you for 51mph if they want (remember that with a legal speedo you won;t be doing over 50mph if that's what your speedo reads). FWIW I got done for 58mph in a 50 – though with a mobile single point camera in a permanent limit on an A road.

Analogue Andy – you say there have been a lot of successful prosecutions, is there anywhere these records/stats are available online?

No, quite the opposite, no stats on line as the police are now refusing to provide data on prosecutions under Freedom of Information Rules since there's been a test case and they are now claiming it would jeopardise operational tactics.

I think the majority (all?) of police forces apply the 'limit +10%+2' rule for speeders to allow for variations in speedo's.

All police forces got together through ACPO and agreed these guidlines:

Limit Fixed Penalty Summons
20 mph 25 mph 35 mph
30 mph 35 mph 50 mph
40 mph 46 mph 66 mph
50 mph 57 mph 76 mph
60 mph 68 mph 86 mph
70 mph 79 mph 96 mph

Fixed penalty of
1. £60 (pending)
2. Licence endorsed with 3 penalty points Magisterial discretion (level 2) maximum of:
1. £1000 fine
2. Licence endorsed – range of penalty points available
3. Disqualification
4. Compulsory re-testing
This guidance does not and cannot replace the police officer's discretion and they may decide to issue a summons or a fixed penalty notice in respect of offences committed at speeds lower than those set out in the table. Moreover, in particular circumstances, driving at speeds lower than the legal limit may result in prosecution for other offences, for example dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention when the speed is inappropriate and inherently unsafe.

Details here:
http://www.cprsp.gov.uk/resources/res.aspx?p=/PublicAttachment/attachmentFilename/23/speed_enforcement_guidelines_web_v7_foi.doc

5 miles at 70mph is only about 1min 30s quicker than 50mph. My license is worth more than that

We used them on the M8 a few years back and in the East direction they caught out about 20 drivers whilst in the West direction it was around 350 drivers.

I was just wondering as I stick tolimits for my licenses stake.
Although it does seem know one has said 'yeah I know someone who got a ticket'.
I know lots of people who've got them from various other types of camera,myself included, just not these.
I know a lot of people through work, and I'm guessing those on this forum do to, so I take it they're very very rare.

wow, lots of replys.

I used to look after 40+ guys on the road with vans
I used to get all the speeding notices through to me from the leasing company
I saw loads in the 6 years I was doing it but never from an average speed set up 😕

got the 50 and 54 the wrong way round, but agree with most of the 'grownup' answers on here – stick to 50, and if so meone else wants to speed, let them. remember you arent responsible for anyone elses speed – just your own!

Just out of interest, people who speed do you commute or ride road bikes? I know how I feel being passed a 60mph on a road bike so I don't really want to do the same to people working on the side of the road. Using the road as a cyclist makes me think a lot harder about how my driving could affect somebody else.

People must get caught though same as the M25 people seem to go flying through the cameras and variable limits at speeds where they must get caught.

I ride a road bike – don't really have a problem with cars passing me at 60 provided they give me enough room (and I'm not significantly happier with somebody passing too close at 40 than 60). In any case, where has anybody suggested speeding past people working? 90%+ of the time when I drive through 50 restrictions on the motorway there is nobody working, and if there are people working I'll slow down even if there isn't a restriction. The big problem IMHO is that there are large amounts of time when 50 restrictions are just protecting the cones, which tends to devalue the importance of such restrictions in motorists minds and make them more likely to speed when people are working.

I'd agree with aracer … there seems to be a tendency to have excessively large coned off sections prior to the actual work area.

Personally, my speedo seems to be just about spot on with the GPS, so on the cruise control, if I run at 50mph, i creep past the other cars fine.

I dont mind slowing to the 50, it does seem to give you a break from the 70 speeds for a few minutes.

I used to look after 40+ guys on the road with vans
I used to get all the speeding notices through to me from the leasing company
I saw loads in the 6 years I was doing it but never from an average speed set up

Just been chatting with the guy that does it now
He's been looking after 100+ cars, vans & trucks for the last 3 years
Any speed camera derived fixed penalties will come through him from the lease company
He also has never had one through from an average camera set up although loads from fixed cameras

Makes you wonder