Gravity - pretty objective. It doesn't really matter what you believe or how you perceive it - gravity exists in the same way for everyone
Yeah, but for every 'gravity' there's a 'beauty' or a 'coldness'. They're subjective.
Where's this all going anyway? 
Where did the thread turn nasty?
I want to go back and read from there.
Well, we know that "colour" is in fact light being reflected off of a surface that does so at a particular wavelength - different surfaces producing different wavelengths.
The measurable effect is there.
camo - some discussion of subjective / objective truth
Rubbernecker
Well, we know that "colour" is in fact light being reflected off of a surface that does so at a particular wavelength - different surfaces producing different wavelengths.The measurable effect is there.
If the measurement takes place prior to the moment when a human eye catches the light and labels the colour seen 'blue' I agree with you.
Once we've passed the 'blue' stage we're in a whole heap of subjectivity.
camo - some discussion of subjective / objective truth
Ta! 
Where did the thread turn nasty?
the nasty poster had a moment of clarity and edited the beastliness away.
Well, we know that "colour" is in fact light being reflected off of a surface that does so at a particular wavelength - different surfaces producing different wavelengths.The measurable effect is there.
If it's not subjective, why can't I hear a dog whistle?
the nasty poster had a moment of clarity and edited the beastliness away.
Roughly then?
And why do mrs deadly and I have discussions that go along the lines of "Look, I'm telling you that's blue". "no, it's definitely grey..." etc etc.?
TandemJeremy - Member
Gravity - pretty objective. It doesn't really matter what you believe or how you perceive it - gravity exists in the same way for everyone
Well so does God, given that most descriptions are semantics, try this as proof of the existence of a supreme power..
If you believe in God then you have to accept Satan and vice versa and you'll find the latter easier to believe in than the former with just a little research, anyway I digress.
If you change the terminology as a force for good and a force for evil.
Then call them Positive and Negative.
Then accept that electromagnetism is the reason everything works, and as such is the life 'force' and requires both Positive & Negative in order to function at all levels.
Then how can you disbelieve one of them?
'God' is just the positive element of 'The Force'
The stories, the various religions, mans pathetic attempt over the years to understand 'why'.
Easy really can't understand why more folk don't get it...
And anyway I have to believe, because God speaks to me all the time and I never seem to be able to ignore her.. She sent me here to help y'all... 
Oh, we're back here again are we? 
I love the Star Wars reduction philosophy contained in:
'God' is just the positive element of 'The Force'
Good work there.
Oh and yes, it was a bit of a troll, long overdue I might add. 
Well so does God, given that most descriptions are semantics, try this as proof of the existence of a supreme power..
Nope - God is an invention of man to attempt to explain the inexplicable
give me one piece of objective proof any god exists
without any objective "measurement" that can be generally accepted
I think a great many people, billions in fact, generally accept that there is a god or gods. So don't start going on about general acceptance.
Plus if you have to say stuff like that 'anyone can see' or 'generally accepted' then you are onto a losing streak in this game I feel.
Derek - don't try and get scientific with the electromagentism thing. You don't understand it well enough to argue like that. As I understand it, God is outside science.
give me one piece of objective proof any god exists
Steady TJ...
TJ - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Here's one for you - does Philosophy exist?
Oh is it time for Epicurius?*
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
* It's always time for Epicurius
give me one piece of objective proof any god exists
But that's the issue, isn't it?
If human experience is naturally and necessarily subjective - even when something as seemingly obvious as colour is analysed its objectivity is questionable - then how can you expect to attain objective proof of the existence of God?
Don't make me go all philosophical on yo ass. I know my Kierkegaard and everything!
As an (admittedly crap) Catholic, can I just say that I find this -"'God' is just the positive element of 'The Force'" cringeworthy to the point of wanting to agree with woppit. Please stop it now dereck. You stated yourself, in a since edited post, that you had 'faith' but didnt consider yourself religious. I dont know where you're coming from now, to be honest, but I strongly suspect that you're just trying to provoke ANY kind of response. Being provocative simply for the sake of it is a bit of an untenable position to maintain.
Epicurious: Someone wanting to have a go on a Specialized bike?
[snip]Not worth typing that lot out. [/snip]
I thought it had something to do with vinegar.
However, not only is "god" a subjective experience for a minority who hallucinate non-verifiable disembodied voices and so forth, the majority of believers accept a "god" simply because they've been told this stuff by other people (some of whom wear funny costumes and must therefore be right), without any objective "measurement" that can be generally accepted.
In your subjective onion...
God is an interpretation.
Made by man as the reason we're all here..
I've just given you a perfectly logical explanation as to why we are all here, with "God" as a symbol for the positive force that makes it all possible.
We cannot exist without electromagnetism.
Electromagnetism cannot exist without a 'positive' force.
We should call in someone who knows about Physics to explain electromagnetism to us fully.
huh?
I've just given you a perfectly logical explanation as to why we are all here,
Really? I must have missed it
That is all.
give me one piece of objective proof any god exists
ladies and gentlemen, may i recommend natalie portman?
Is the music of Amy Winehouse good?
How do you know we are not all in the Matrix?
What if God was very careful about covering up any proof of his existence?
None of those questions have definitive answers.
The question about philosophy above serves to illustrate that something can exist wholly within the minds of humans, but it still exists.
barnsleymitch - Member
As an (admittedly crap) Catholic, can I just say that I find this -"'God' is just the positive element of 'The Force'" cringeworthy to the point of wanting to agree with woppit. Please stop it now dereck. You stated yourself, in a since edited post, that you had 'faith' but didnt consider yourself religious. I dont know where you're coming from now, to be honest, but I strongly suspect that you're just trying to provoke ANY kind of response. Being provocative simply for the sake of it is a bit of an untenable position to maintain.
Forgive me Mr Mitch, in my trollish way I'm trying to illustrate to these fellows that denying the existences of something they don't fully understand and using it to back a given stance, is hypocrisy..
God is a myriad of things to myriad people..
And she doesn't like being denied.
Once we've passed the 'blue' stage we're in a whole heap of subjectivity.
Indeed. There was a great program a few months back that if a particular language didn't have a word for 'blue' (which some don't), then your ability to perceive 'blue' were very limited.
"We cannot exist without electromagnetism."
And I cannot exist without chips, but I dont try and equate that with a belief in God. Stop trying to dress it up in wooly pseudo scientific terms. Christ, at least I've got enough about myself to just say I believe in God and take the inevitable shoeing by saying so. Man up, troll boy!
If you believe in God then you have to accept Satan and vice versa and you'll find the latter easier to believe in than the former with just a little research
What's the research that supports the existence of Satan?
Christ, at least I've got enough about myself to just say I believe in God and take the inevitable shoeing by saying so. Man up, troll boy!
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