We are Mud and Sweat, and we regularly run Mountain Bike Orienteering or ‘Trailquest’ style events. These work in a score format – whereby participants (either solo’s, pairs or families) are given a map with a number of checkpoints on, all worth differing scores, and then have a set time limit in order to visit as many checkoints as possible in order to maximise their score. The advantage of this style of event is that participants can choose their own route, taking into account whether they want to ride technical singletrack, or stick to wide forest tracks, they can choose the distance they want to ride – and it’s not only physical fitness that will help participants to succeed – but good map reading, planning and strategy!

We have had a mixed response in terms of numbers entering our events – with many events barely covering the cost of putting on such events. We have often wondered whether the word ‘orienteering’ or the image people associate with this sport is putting people off, or whether just the navigation is a deterrent in itself. We endeavour to make our events fun, professional and inclusive for all, and utilise SportIdent electronic timing to add to the experience – but numbers are still low.

In an attempt to boost numbers at our events, we are now going to run in parallel with our orienteering events, traditional timed lap races – where participants ride a number of laps around a set cross-country course (no navigation required) in the fastest time possible – we are calling this our Trail Blazer events. To make them a little different to other events like this – we are running them like a rally, in that as we are using the electronic timing system participants can attempt their laps at any point during the day, and are not necessarily racing head to head against other competitors, although their times will be compared!

We are hoping that running this will enable us to sustain both types of event.

Our next event (both orienteering and trail blazer) is The Turkey Burner and will be taking place on the 2nd January 2011, at Woodbury Common in East Devon.

For more information about this event, or any future events – please check out our website http://www.mudandsweat.com or join our facebook group.

MBO on a tandem is ace fun. Hardly need to slow down, as the fella on the back can do the map reading so long as they keep the pedals turning!

Sounds like a double dose of misery – tandems and mapreading.

How about OrientBeering? Does that sound more interesting?

A can of beer at each checkpoint. 🙂

They’re not called Trailquests any more. It’s BMBO or British Mountain Bike Orienteering, trips off the tongue doesn’t it?

then should MidlandTrailquestsGraham now be referred to as MidlandBMBOGraham or MidlandBritishMountainBikeOrienteeringGraham

or can we still call him OP or MTG? 👿

Used to race them regularly with the wife – met some lovely people, some properly fast riders and ate a lot of cake and tea after 5 hours of riding. What’s not too like? Even won a few prizes, used to be brilliant ones from Trailbreak – still use a set of USE Atom carbon risers from one, and a his’n’hers Kona long sleeve tops, Kryptonite locks etc….

Another “used to ride orienteering events” here also. The amount of “used to” people is large & is obviously the reason why events are dying out. Seems that no one wants to read maps & ride anymore. My reason for packing it in was the large amount of road use involved in getting a good score & the riding up a trail to get the point & riding back down the same trail to get back on the road required to go & do the same on the next point. Seemed like an awful lot of avoiding being off-road was required which made it almost pointless being on a mountain bike. Big events like Polaris etc generally ended up as a procession IME following a big long line of riders – may as well do a “MTB Marathon”

Yes. If it was called ‘Being massaged with unsalted Normandy butter by attractive members of the opposite sex whilst eating Hob-nobs’ I would be more attempted to attend, but probably ultimately disappointed.

Ive been doing them ever since Trail Break started doing them – was that over 10 yrs ago now ? Sadly they stopped this year.

I dont care what they call them, I find the act of mapreading, racing the clock, choosing the route and riding in new places brilliant.

But sadly I do think the rise of people needing their fun all guided, signposted, lead, mapped out for them and offered on a plate will be the demise of this type of sport.

How many times do we read thread where someone asks to be shown a riding area, or asks where can they ride – well get a map and find out yourself. There must be thousands of riders who only ride in Wales if its a Trail center. Ive met some who cant ride in the Chilterns unless its a marked route from Evans.

Sad, but it seems an inevitable direction given people expecting everything on a plate, SatNavs in car etc etc.

I own more than one GPS, but love maps, love exploring, love the whole event. At least on the bright side, unmapped and unsign-posted trails will be fairly quite. Unlike places like Cannock, where FTD is rammed, but the rest of the forest empty.

I will be checking out more of these events for 2011 now Trailbreak are not doing them. I set up one myself once for some mates – it was really good fun setting it up and lauging at them getting lost.

Are there any in my country? (Wales)

Unlike places like Cannock, where FTD is rammed, but the rest of the forest empty.

WRONGthe rest of the forest is wonderful apart from SOULLESS MISERBALE HEAD DOWN MAPBOARD RON HILL MARIN BEARDIES not looking where they are going as fast as they can and riding too close to horses / walkers / dogs. As for the runners they are utter SWEARWORD running all over sensitive habitats used by endangered species.
Snakebite pooed in one of your stupid little buckets once.

I wonder how many of the posters on this thread ride marin’s and own a cosmic corner pad.

I think people are put off by the name, it does what it says on the tin and that is boring. I doubt if you renamed it

Naked Crack Dwarfs tour of the enchanted forests that you’d get much more business.

DULL.

For those folk who do like looking at maps and riding without signage, a cafe and showers then perhaps consider trying the, Welsh Ride Thing next May. Think of it it, part Polaris, part trail quest, some just riding and a dash of Ray Mears to season.

In fact, there’s so many aspects to it that everybody must dislike atleast one … so I’m now left wondering why people want to do it 😉

or can we still call him OP or MTG

You’re doing this on purpose now, aren’t you ?

Are there any in my country? (Wales)

H Surfr, I organised events based at Nant yr Arian, Mach, and Devils Bridge for 8 years back in the day. This was before the NyA development and Mach 1-3 was thought of. Just ask Joe H about them, he rode a few. The area is, IMHO,the best TQ area in the UK with a brilliant network of trails and route alternatives, my events were usually 80% off road and a real test of navigation. Since moving to S Yorks it has been impossible to spend enough time to do any more although I still have a place at Devils Bridge. It may be worth floating the idea of running one with the lads at Ystwyth MBC, I would be more than happy to help you. Shelly has also been involved in the early ones both organising and competing, as was Tegid Humphreys. I did the WRT last year and I must admit it got the thought process going again, maybe Stuart would be up for doing a 1 day event with the controls closer together. Mach is a very good venue due to having Bro Dyfi and good trails close to the town.

I’d say I’m put off by the name.

But only because the name currently includes “orienteering”. If you renamed it and the competition still included the orienteering bit I’d still be put off.

I say put off. I mean completely and utterly repulsed.

Why does having a full susser mean you don’t have to read a map? Ah I get it , you can only do trail centres if you have a Full suss, obvious really.

Why do we have these perennial put downs of everybody’s particular niche? I am not keen on trail centres, I have no interest in DH and find it’s styles bizarre but I am glad they are there . The more bike sports there are hopefully mean a greater profile for MTBs as a whole. As for Trailquest or whatever you decide to call it, it’s fairly innocuous on the scale of things.Some of these posts seem to show real hatred for TQers. We have enough outsiders who hate us all without adding to the ranks from inside our sport.

pistonbroke. Yeh I’m sure I helped Shelley at the sign-on in the cafe at Nant a few years back. I just wasn’t aware of any events currently running. dreednya of these shores and Ystwyth MTB has mentioned possible interest in getting something going again soon. Joe H and I are supposed to be organising a cyclocross race in the area for 2011 season under the Ystwyth banner so may struggle to find time to organise 2 events but it’s definitely worth looking into if there’s local interest.

To be fair trailquesting does remind of this kind of thing..

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw[/video]

I think its the questing bit that does it…

Just put in a kayak stage and call it an adventure race – that seems to work for some places.

Never done an MTBO, have done a few ARs though which were excellent.

Snakebite pooed in one of your stupid little buckets once.

I remember you mentioning that. I still find it funny because the “buckets” don’t have bottoms, so he probably pooed on his own shoes.

just picked up this thread:
MTBO and MBO Score(or Trailquest)
MTBO is on purpose made smaller scale maps ie 1:15 thou. No fixed time limit. Yes controls have to be taken in the correct order but the route choice between them varies from rider to rider. There are timeouts where safety is a concern – ie road crossings, busy public areas.
MBO scores or Trailquests tend to be longer 2-5 hour events and use OS mapping. You have to get as many check points as you can in a fixed time period.
MTBO’s are mostly shorter distances – 4 disciplines, Sprint, Middle Distance, Long Distance and Ultra Long. Sprint winning times are circa 25 mins, Ultra long 3 hours.
The only Head to Head racing is on mass start long races and relays (not been any in the UK for a few years).
MTBO is raced internationally and in the UK we have one of the best female riders in the world – Emily Benham who last time I looked did not have a beard or ride a Marin.
A load of links for those interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mMYMif7mfc – Head Cam footage from the start of a world cup relay in Gdansk Poland in 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvfvIuO5AwA Head cam footage from the world Champs Sprint, held in a town ! – this gives a real idea of what the sport entails at the highest levels.
http://www.emilybenham.co.uk Emily Benham Blog
http://www.stodgell.co.uk – my blog

Trailbreak have stopped doing Navigators due to lack of numbers

I think it was more that they found that they could make shed loads of money running Sportives, with loads more riders and far less effort.

Trail Break are a commercial operation who never really gelled with the rider operated not-for-profit TCA who used to put on Trailquest events.

As per various posts above, the Trailquest name has now been dropped and it is all “mountain bike orienteering” though now in 2 flavours “MTBO” on a small scale orienteering map – usually point to point and shorter distance i.e. a race. and “MTBO Score” which is on a bigger scale OS maps and is a “test of navigation” i.e. the old Traiquest.

One of the reasons for TQ being a “test of navigation” is that it is ILLEGAL to RACE on bridleways in England and Wales – which is why we ended up with this format (and also BTW why we have such a big marathon scene in the UK) – whereas in the rest of Europe where they don’t have such crap rights of way legislation “proper” MTBO is a lot more popular.

I don’t think it is so much that there is a lack of interest in MTBO, just that these days there are such a huge number of events (of all kinds) to choose from that all except the biggest events that have to limit numbers are diluted.

BTW there is a new southern series of MTBO events – details here which I’m slightly involved in as the course planner for the April 9th round

I don’t think it is so much that there is a lack of interest in MTBO, just that these days there are such a huge number of events (of all kinds) to choose from that all except the biggest events that have to limit numbers are diluted.

That and huge numbers of riders do not know it even exists. It is not publicised very well imo, most of the people I know do not know anything about it.

Another “used to ride orienteering events” here also. The amount of “used to” people is large & is obviously the reason why events are dying out.

I started riding them seriously probably late 90’s.. since then we’ve got married, had kids, moved up the job ladder, moved to bigger house etc. Finding an hour here and there to ride out of my garage is tough enough, that’s the main reason for me. Certainly the peak of the events (around the south anyway) was around 2004 if I remember right, and that’s a fair old time ago now.