A new manager started at work recently. He has said that if you’ve worked somewhere for 2 years or more you’ve become institutionalised. He’d also like more ‘churn’ of staff, that is old staff leaving and new staff replacing them. What’s your opinions?

That he’s a ****

I am not a number, I am a free man.

Be seeing you.

Sack him in 23months

Depends on the industry. I’m one of those wacky creative types. I was told years ago, by a design business owner that she would never employ anyone who’d been working exclusively in one area for over two years. As by then you’ve run out of fresh ideas, and you’re just being lazy and repeating yourself

FWIW I thought that sounded like utter cobblers then. Even more so now

Don’t work for an institution, so can’t be institutionalised I suppose.

Churning staff is a pretty weird term. Do you work for a butter institution? Lurpak, perhaps?

People can and do become somewhat institutionalised but personally it would take a lot longer and when it did happen would probably be the time to leave. On the bright side he’ll be gone in 2 years 😉

In some industries high staff turnover is good, for some its bad….and it can be good/bad for the staff/business in each instance.

Whatever – by openly stating he wants more ‘churn’ is either an act of management genius, simply a little atagonistic or he’s a complete tool. I have an opinion on which of those three catageories he falls into 😉

I agree with him, but put it at about 3-5 yrs.

Never trust working with someone who’s been in the same company for more than 5 yrs because they’re less likely to care about you, the client or the quality of the work than how easy a ride they can maintain.

NASA space suit on, and we have lift off…. 😈

We try to minimise voluntary labour turnover. Loosing staff = lower revenue earning, management time to recruit and train, lost client contacts, unsettling to other team members…

What would be an example of a business where higher turnover is good? i’m curious

By his reckoning, I need to find a new job early next year. As it is, my plan is no more than 4 years in this role.

I made a (relatively) bold transition within my profession – though not an unusual one – so I need to get the skills I need and then go in hunt of more (about £20k minimum) money.

P7Pro what line of work are you in?

I worked for the same place for 8 years in total and only when bad manages came in and wrecked everything did I move on a I’m really glad I did. I know it got worse. The next job was 2 year this one coming up to two years now but if by three years there isn’t any sing of promotion then I’ll move on.

swedishmatt: It’s an IT department for a finance company.

13 years in, several roles, no industry qualifications, well paid…

yep thats me signed up for the institution…not sure how it happened tbh

What would be an example of a business where higher turnover is good? i’m curious

Pretty much anything unskilled as far as can tell, where the available labour market is large – helps keep wage levels low. Used to work in a meat processing factory where conditions were generally poor, which meant staff turnover was high, but the availabilty of local labour meant there were always many people still applying for jobs where the wages were always actually and relatively low….. which in combination with the working conditions maintained high staff turnover.

Depends on your field of work. Many change all the time, so how do you become institutionalised to something that is always developing? You do not and cannot. If your field hasn’t changed since the 1960s, on the other hand, then yeah you’ll become institutionalised in your approach (which may mean you’re an indispensible technical asset because you know the job inside out).

In an ideal world maybe it would be good to change things up every few years. Anyone talking about ‘churn’ for churn’s own sake in the current climate, though, wants a pickaxe in the head.

19 years in the same job for me.

I get paid well, the coffee is 10p and occasionally they hold a mirror under my nose to see if I’m still breathing.

Almost eight years for me.

Actively trying to think of a way out – self churning, if you will.

Problem is, my job’s very niche (not well paid, but niche) and there’s not a lot of call for my ‘skills’, so moving on may not be an option at the moment.

Not institutionalised though. There’s way too much chaos here to kick back and spark up my pipe.

What would be an example of a business where higher turnover is good? i’m curious

I’ve always wondered if kids might benefit from teachers being forced to change schools a bit more often.

I’ll tell you what – there are a lot more institutionalised people about to enter the job market.

Those zombies that populate council offices, government departments, job centres and suchlike. Same crumpled suit since 1978, held together entirely by soup stains. Single. Dubious personal hygiene. Quarter bottle of vodka tucked away in inside pocket. Nobody knows what they actually do. Whose only ambition is to make it to the pension without anyone noticing them.

Apparently the resurgent private sector is going to be leaping at the chance to take them all on. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 😕

Send him an invite for his leaving party in 23 months time and then see if he walks the walk.

binners – It will just be proof that the welfare state is only there for the unemployable 🙂

At the 2nd interview for my last job, the MD, sitting reading my CV says something like, “I see you worked for 22 years at blah blah, I personally am concerned about anyone who stays in one job for more than 5 years”, to which I replied “so how long have you been here then?” – er um 15 years, when can you start.

Some people don’t even beleive what they say as it comes out of their mouths, but they are too sold on following whatever is dressed up as “best practise” this week and/or too lazy to question it.

following whatever is dressed up as “best practise” this week and/or too lazy to question it.

totally agree with this.
it can really depend on the HR/ recruitment process in place at the company and how they interpret your CV and interview responses.
you have to tailor your response to what you think they want to hear.
some recruitment processes are so static and undynamic that I would question whether I wanted to work for a company who had implemented them.

Depends on your role within a business, the creative and energetic roles are where you’d maybe want a turnover and you’d probably get one anyway because those types of people have a wandering eye, The steadfast jobs you want people to hang around, creating a ‘corporate memory’ so that you don’t go repeating mistakes that were made 2 years and 1 month ago.

Some lines of work you can’t jump ship all that often though. I used to be in the contemporary art game. Got my proper job at 25, was director of my own venue by 28, ran out of things i wanted to do or places I wanted to work by 31 and effectively retired. Can’t even be bothered to walk into a gallery now unless someone pays me to.

Staff leaving costs money, you need to advertise, spend time recruiting, train them, etc. Most modern companies strive for staff retention through staff benefits, working conditions, etc not a high labour turnover.

This new manager will need to explain why he has a high staff turnover, why he’s blown his training budget and saying ‘staff have become institutionalised’ will be laughed out of the boardroom.

Yep some of our systems take 2 years to learn and 5 years to become an expert.

It also depends upon personal circumstances – when you have a family and mortgage just chopping and changing jobs because some tool thinks you should every couple of years might not be the best idea.

I’d tell him to go and churn himself!

P7Pro – Member
A new manager started at work recently. He has said that if you’ve worked somewhere for 2 years or more you’ve become institutionalised. He’d also like more ‘churn’ of staff, that is old staff leaving and new staff replacing them. What’s your opinions?

You should have told that isn’t how it works here, but in time you’re learn how to fit in.

Yep some of our systems take 2 years to learn and 5 years to become an expert.

Really?

dont think it matters how long youve been with a company.

10years in my case (yeaterdays redundancy isnt good news of course) but ive moved within the company from military aircraft, uav, shipbuilding now on civil aircraft. So ive been with differnet teams, different ways of working throughout, am i really less employable?

or would future employers see someone who will stick around, not take all the training then buggar off.

Really?

Yup, didn’t feel like I was an expert in the software we design and sell for 3 years, and there are still bits of it now that I feel that I don’t know as well as I should (new features mostly)

P7PRO: I think you definitely don’t want IT people to leave on a regular basis. I’m not in IT, but I can see how that would be a disaster! (hold on what was the password for that again?). But then if he is from a finance background (the new manager that is) he might be on the lookout for the next deb..I mean investment vehicle!

Institutionalised – mentally ill?

HR – human remains?

17 years in for me

I get paid way above average for doing well below average hours, I’ve now accrued so many additional days annual leave that I can rival a teacher for time off [43 days this year]

Institutionalised? – I bloody well hope so

From my experience, IT has quite a high turnover….

Does this apply if, despite working for the same organisation, you change posts/roles and working location (not just office but town/city and sometimes country) every 6-24 months…?

Then again, very little has changed in my line of work in the last hundred years or so.

12 years in by the way and 66 additional days’ leave accrued in the last 12 months…

Whilst that kind of talk might apply to some roles or industries, it smacks of a manager trying to talk big and impress. And sounding like a cretin.

It’s pretty ludicrous really. There are many, many roles where experience of a particular field built up over a number of years is invaluable.

It takes 6 months to learn a job at my place and you are still considered inexperienced up till about 2 years.Oil industry, they are happy with people they know and trust.