Anyone dodging the parking needs a hard slap. At Cannock I was advised to park down the road mid-ride as it was free. Why?!

Multiple reasons for paying. If someone bregrudges upto £5 to park yet will happily spunk £20 in petrol/diesel and X money on a bike/kit- why freeload on all that hardwork?

Binners calls me the tight Yorkshireman at the bar. Aye, only tight in certain social circumstances 😀

Yep, fee dodging is wrong, but what if you use your bike to get to the trail centre, is that theft?

A kind of different- in that case as long as you put money into the facilities provided- bike wash and/or cafe IMO.

I.e. contribute something.

Did I miss something – Didn’t the OP say he was riding the trail himself before the torrent of abuse directed towards people who ride trail centers?

*******HYPOCRITE WARNING*********
*******HYPOCRITE WARNING*********
*******HYPOCRITE WARNING*********
*******HYPOCRITE WARNING*********
*******HYPOCRITE WARNING*********
*******HYPOCRITE WARNING*********
*******HYPOCRITE WARNING*********

are forestry commission trail centres self supporting now then..?
do the parking fees actually pay for the upkeep of the trails?

Or are they just a small part of a larger industry.. a good money spinner..?

Trail centres aren’t for me; I last went to one over 10 years ago, LLandegla.

However, I went to Whinlatter last weekend and loved it. Trail centres aren’t something you could do every week but like a McDonanlds, every now and again is ok.

The only real issue I had was the vast numbers of middle-classes along with their awful middle-class children.

About 80% of the board then – or with our 4/5 k’s worth of toys are we upper middle class !

are forestry commission trail centres self supporting now then..?
do the parking fees actually pay for the upkeep of the trails?

Or are they just a small part of a larger industry.. a good money spinner..?

some may use the carpark as both a visual and an indicator for visitor figures to argue for continuing or even increasing funding.

Abit of a far out example but- If alot of visitors sneaked straight onto the trail with an emptish hub area – what impression would it give?

I don’t think they are doing toooo bad at Haldon

At least some of the funding went into comprehensively sealing off areas which allowed people to park outside of the car park

🙂

yoshimi – Member
Trail centres aren’t for me; I last went to one over 10 years ago, LLandegla.

I guess you know all about them then…

No FC trail centres are not likely to be self supporting. Well over half a million has been spent on Gisburn, then there’s volunteer labour and all the time and materials that come out of the annual forest budget. Gonna take a long time for those £3 to pay that back, especially as the cleaning costs for the new toilet block also need to come out of that. The income generation helps offset the real cost of building and maintaining trails and makes it more likely the FC will continue to subsidise the trails.

I guess you know all about them then…

I know enough, and I know I’d much rather fill my time riding natural stuff in the Lakes or Dales

However, I went to Whinlatter last weekend and loved it.

I’m not slagging them off, I very much enjoyed Whinlatter, but not something I’d want to do all the time – hence I do think the OP analogy is pretty good

The trails at Haldon were funded out of government grants (national and local) and continued funding from the sports council etc (according to the report that I linked to from the forestry commission website in my last post)

It’s an interesting one cos the cynic in me refuses to believe that any of this would be happening unless a comprehensive and profitable business plan had been put in place first

*applies to McDonalds for franchises next to a selection of trail centres*

*applies to Loving Hut for franchises next to binners’ MucMucks*

I know enough, and I know I’d much rather fill my time riding natural stuff in the Lakes or Dales

I’ll do both, good fun just different, your comment was based on going to one 10 years ago so hardly a frame of reference.

I’m heading back to the best trail centre in the world for another great day tomorrow. Shuttle up the middle and all the great riding of every kind all around and great coffee and cakes to be had.

from the sports council etc (according to the report that I linked to from the forestry commission website in my last post)

It’s an interesting one cos the cynic in me refuses to believe that any of this would be happening unless a comprehensive and profitable business plan had been put in place first

If the cynic in you can find a way to make typical forestry commission trail centres generate a profit then I suggest you stop wasting time on here and get on with counting the millions you’ve made from your unparalleled business genius…

Llandegla – McDonalds (bit plastic, but a good hit)
Grizedale – Stavros’ Hellenic Kebab Emporium (interesting in my youth, less so now but good side dishes)
Whinlatter – Spud-U-Like (Like the topping but the bottom bits not that great)
Ae – Burger King (just off the motorway)

The Forestry Commission have a lot of buiness income streams (selling trees being just one of them). A lot of the public access/recreation stuff is not seen as a business, its part of what they are tasked to do under their charter. It doesn’t have to generate any income, but if it does (through carparks, or leasing out to Go Ape etc.) it helps balance the books.

Or thats what I’ve been told anyway.

All about the big picture… Part of the FC’s government funding is to provide recreation and exercise. But mostly it’s about the benefit to the local area, there’s a great case study online for Laggan- it’ll never make money itself, but within the first year it recouped the full initial cost, in local benefits- jobs created, money spent locally etc.

There’s some exceptions where it’s totally run for profit but even many of these get external funding (people say “Llandegla’s privately owned”, and yes it is but the amount of public money involved is huge- it’s almost an FC trailcentre on Tilhill land)

If the cynic in you can find a way to make typical forestry commission trail centres generate a profit then I suggest you stop wasting time on here and get on with counting the millions you’ve made from your unparalleled business genius…

hah.. I am woefully dyslexic in the ways of manifesting material wealth 😆

what are they there for then?
how and why did they come about?
are they an altruistic endeavour to make the nation healthier and happier?
to save the NHS some dosh?

genuine question like.. I’ve never thought about it really

(EDIT: ah, between the report I read from the FC and Northwind’s post my questions have been somewhat answered)

Is this basically about what constitutes ‘real mountain biking’?

Cannock has had some money from the car parking this year I read about it somewhere. It deserves it too, that carpark is full every dry weekend, and 80% of the vehicles there have a bike rack on I reckon, the rest probably have bike inside. All the local non bikey visitors stop at the other visitor centre where it’s free and there are BBQ pits and a kids park.

A forest is a 30-50 year investment that needs some prodding over it’s life, othere than that it doesn’t do much. Building trails doesn’t make you any money either. Renting out space for a cafe & bike shop does and generates cold hard cash for the FC. Also a lot of EU development cash has gone in as it helps to regenerate places by bringing in tourist cash (B+B, camping, food etc.) so helps struggling local economies survive/revive.

From FC England –

“Our mission is to protect and expand forests and woodlands and increase their value to society and the environment.”

FC was set up to better manage our forestry resources in a public way for public benefit after the second world war highlighted our lack of capacity to be self sufficient. Similar to MAFF being set up to maximize farming output and hence the majority of forests were Spruce for quick returns and low amenity. Their mission has moved on and amenity and leisure is a big economic driver – CyB being the prime case study for pumping cash into an area.

tomaso – Member

FC was set up to better manage our forestry resources in a public way for public benefit after the second world war highlighted our lack of capacity to be self sufficient.

Forestry Commission was set up in 1919, as a strategic military reserve- pit props and trenches.

Weren’t the 7 Stands comissioned in the wake of the Foot and Mouth crisis as a way to help the local economies diversify?

I ride the Peak – Dark & White, I ride BPW, I ride Llandegla, I ride Coed-Y-Brenin, I ride Cannock I ride Fort Bill.

I love em all!

What’s your point OP?