Are mountain bikes destroying the Pentlands?

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Are mountain bikes destroying the Pentlands?

52 posts & 32 voices | Started 4 months ago by kennyp | Latest reply from suresuresure

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kennyp - Member

I've been biking/walking/running in the Pentlands for around 15 years, but the last 6 months have seen many of the tracks become nothing but mud. Is this mainly due to bikes? Or walkers, runners, horse riders too?

Or is it the weather, and if so, will the trails recover if we have a dry spell?

Or is resurfacing the answer, and if so, where is the money going to come from?

Just wondering. I can see the Pentlands from where I'm typing this. I'm about to head out but have decided to take the winter road bike rather than face another mudfest.

Posted 4 months ago #
scaredypants - Member

dunno

in other news, the new forest is utterly f****d at the moment - hosses 'n' cows, not bikes

Posted 4 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Its been a very wet spell, I guess traffic of all sorts increases each year, there is no budget to resurface. some will recover over the summer unless it continues to be so wet. No doubt a significant part of the damage is bikes - Its no coincidence that trails feathered in magazine articles got trashed within a year

I will he trying to organise some more trail repair days in the new year to try to right some of the damage. Personally 'cos its been so wet I have not been up there for months

Posted 4 months ago #
PaulGillespie - Member

Good question!

I've not been in the Pentland since around October. It's been pretty wet recently and i'd rather not damage the trails over the winter months. Generaly I ride the hills in summer and trail centres in winter.

IMO there's only one or two routes that can take winter traffic without causing damage and, again IMO, MTBs do cause a lot of damage to the non surfaced trails.

There were some trail maintenance sessions this summer that were very successful. Hopefully these continue next year and will repair some of the churned up bits.

Posted 4 months ago #
thebikechain - Member

One of the reasons we have not been up for over a year (since the snow in 2010) is that some of the more fun bits can't handle the combined traffic of all users. We elected to not use them until it is in better shape.

Personally been up just twice i can recall on my own ironically since moving up to the area and thinking i would be out all the time. Done a few walks with Wife and it is pretty nasty in places.

Posted 4 months ago #
druidh - Member

There's no doubt that the increased 2 wheeled traffic is causing problems. Like many, I have a self-imposed ban. The last time I was up was when we had the snow. I do wish more folk would adopt the same approach. I reckon we should ban all bikes with tyres less than 3.7" wide.

FWIW, horses cause even more damage. I was out walking nearthe North Esk recently and the tracks round there are particularly bad.

Posted 4 months ago #
hels - Member

I always thought there was a kind of informal agreement amongst bikers not to use the Pentlands in winter, I guess the summer has been so wet it hasn't helped !

Posted 4 months ago #
teamhurtmore - Member

Multiple users are causing problems including mtb, horses, walkers etc.

But as a body (ie. mtb-ers) I think (with the risk of being flamed) that we are to quick to exercise our right (whatever that means) to ride where, when, how we like ignoring the consequences of our selfish attitude. I was in Lakes recently and rode one of the well known mtb tours. Riding between Skelwith and Iron Keld plantation I was shocked at the mtb erosion (sadly now including my own) on this bridelway. The wet ground was torn up by tires into a mess that was far worse than boots. I learned my lesson then!

Posted 4 months ago #
stevenmenmuir - Member

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/moonlander

You're so last year Druidh, they should ban anything with less than 4.7"

Do ERC and Edinburgh Uni and the like still take groups out just now?

Posted 4 months ago #
13thfloormonk - Member

I've ridden with Edinburgh Uni a fair bit, they're pretty good at sticking to the hard stuff when its clarty.

There was the small matter of someone (non EUCC) organising a Megavalanche type event off the side of Allermuir, that was late October though and I think the ground was fairly firm. Still not the best idea at that time of year, especially on such a skinny nice wee trail.

Posted 4 months ago #
Trekster - Member

hels - Member
I always thought there was a kind of informal agreement amongst bikers not to use the Pentlands in winter, I guess the summer has been so wet it hasn't helped !

Probably is amongst the old school.
What I think is happening is that the more riders/walkers find out about these places the more it gets used but the folklore of the ride area gets lost. Seen it happen with some of the stuff I have ridden for some 20yrs or so. Try keeping it quite for a while, show some mates who show some mates etc, etc and the next thing you know it is wrecked.
Not sure how many of you remember a number of years ago when Mabie was practically closed during the winter (before 7Stanes) when the trails were all natural, post surfacing/maintenance regimes. They just became so muddy and unrideable/unsustainable.
Also happened during the first 2yrs of the 7Stanes when 2 sections of the upgraded trail were left "natural" at the request of some locals who objected to the trail being "sanitised". One of those sections have been abandoned/re-routed and the other was closed for 6mths for repair/surfacing work to be done, during a very wet, cold winter!!!

Just think about how popular mtbing has become over the last 10yrs or so
When I started night riding with a few mates, Ever Ready torches taped to the bars there were about 1/2doz of us. Now there can be 30 odd riders out on a Thurs night never mind those that ride on the other week days

Posted 4 months ago #
swiss01 - Member

there is an area near where i am that i've ridden since moving to the area but these last couple of years, due in large part to the factors trekster lists above, the trails have become more and more degraded to the point where mostly i don't bother amy more and particularly in winter when the trail damage is just plain depressing. the solution? aye, that'll be to have a race on it.

the obvious solution would be to have a wee bit more care but that so obviously doesn't work!

Posted 4 months ago #
devs - Member

Dunno about Embra but a lot of Scotland actually had a dry summer. Well, below average rainfall anyway. It's what caused the false early autumn and that innit.

Posted 4 months ago #
13thfloormonk - Member

Embra summer was just a bit kind of.. meh... really. So much so that I can't actually remember what it was like. Remember one beauty of a dry ride into the sunset and cleaning a climb that would only be rideable in the dry, so we must have had sun at some point...

Posted 4 months ago #
CaptJon - Member

This is an interesting one. I wonder what bridleways were like after farmers had herded their livestock to market a century ago. And one option to help protect eroded routes is to put a harder surface down, but that would inevitably lead to people complaining about their favourite route being sanitised.

Posted 4 months ago #
jimmy - Member

Embra summer was such that it rained heavily on and off and never really warmed up, so AFAIK the Pentlands remained moist throughout. Hardly went up there over summer for that reason. Unlike the summer of love 2010, them's were the days.

Posted 4 months ago #
PaulGillespie - Member

Ah, how we used to roll around on those warm sunny evenings watching the sun go down.....

Posted 4 months ago #
cynic-al - Member

Many trails turn to mud in winter-have you really been riding there for 15 years and not seen this?

I've been riding there a bit longer....the trails are still there, as are the hills themselves, I'd say they're not being destroyed at all, despite red sock doom mongers saying this 2 decades ago...

Posted 4 months ago #
iainc - Member

As said by others, I reckon it is down to increase in all sorts of outdoor activity. My local trails are at Mugdock, and we have exactly the same scenario. Yes, there is a LOT more mtb use of the trails, but there are also more walkers and runners too. That, combined with a pretty wet period since October, has rendered much of what has been great riding for the past decade plus a quagmire which may not recover unless we get a decent dry spell next yr.

Posted 4 months ago #
metalheart - Member

a lot of Scotland actually had a dry summer

In Aberdeen it was the second wettest September on record. July & August weren't much cop neither.

Surprisingly the local trails aren't too bad atm.

Posted 4 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Look at these irresponsible idiots

TBC RideOut 1 by robgarrioch, on Flickr

Posted 4 months ago #
mr plow - Member

Yip, they are widening the path right there, the hills will soon be flat with this awful behaviour!

Posted 4 months ago #
remoterob - Member

The problem here is that it isn't cold enough, usually this time of year the wet bits have frozen solid.

Posted 4 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

Just think about how popular mtbing has become over the last 10yrs or so

What with the recession and stuff, could we now start to see a decline in mtbers out and about in such places? I'd imagine ittud(sic) cost a few quid in petrol to get to such places for as lot of folk, and maybe people might think 'I'll save money and ride locally this weekend instead of going to X or Y as I used to'.

No?

Posted 4 months ago #
crazy-legs - Member

'I'll save money and ride locally this weekend instead of going to X or Y as I used to'.

Pentlands IS local, it's right on the edge of Edinburgh. 15 mins ride from the town centre. Maybe you're right though, could be all the Edinburgh folk who would once have driven to Glentress/Innerleithen are now riding in the Pentlands...

It does get incredibly wet, muddy and chewed up in winter though.

Posted 4 months ago #
druidh - Member

They are about to introduce car parking charges for the Pentlands. It is hoped this will raise around £60k pa to go towards upkeep and maintenance.

Edinburgh Council recently proposed a hotel "bed tax" to raise more money for city infrastructure.

With more bike retailers opening up in Edinburgh, I wonder if it is time to introduce a local levy on bike and accessory sales?

Posted 4 months ago #
PaulGillespie - Member

I think it's a combination of both, more people in the sport and also the cost of going to other venues. I certainly think twice about going somewhere for a ride if i'm not sharing fuel costs.

Posted 4 months ago #
PaulGillespie - Member

I would support car park charging as long as the money raised actually went to the upkeep of the park and not just into the general council pot.

Posted 4 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

Pentlands IS local, it's right on the edge of Edinburgh.

I meant across the UK in general really.

I read something a few years ago can't remember where about golf club membership being an indicator of the health of the economy; in lean times, membership dwindles, and VV.

There has bin a significant increase on the number of 'leisure' cyclists in't last 20 years or so, as well as the big increase in commuters. But will those who cycle purely for leisure reasons be dissuaded by a decrease in disposable income? Take up cheaper activities instead?

Posted 4 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

Dubbel(sic) post glitch.

Posted 4 months ago #
PaulGillespie - Member

If it were me, i'd rather buy Deore/entry level kit and still get out than give it up completely. Biking does not have to be expensive, some just choose it to be that way, me included!

Posted 4 months ago #
stevenmenmuir - Member

Many trails turn to mud in winter-have you really been riding there for 15 years and not seen this?

I've been riding there a bit longer....the trails are still there, as are the hills themselves, I'd say they're not being destroyed at all, despite red sock doom mongers saying this 2 decades ago...

A lot of the trails are in a worse condition now than at any time I can remember in the last ten years. Phantoms, the woods at Clubbiedean, Black Hill, Pistachio Way and the Nail Trail. The flash floods we had during the summer were quite bad, just look at the hardcore that was washed down the hill towards Puke Hill.

Posted 4 months ago #
SandyThePig - Member

I've not been out in the Pentlands since October. Weather has been too pish - stuck to the road instead.

Posted 4 months ago #
trailmonkey - Member

it's a disaster that this pristine wilderness is being destroyed. the tyre tracks will soon be right down to the earth's core and small children will probably fall in.

i predict mass species extinctions unless the correct primacy of values prevails.

Posted 4 months ago #
Trekster - Member

Elfinsafety - Member
Just think about how popular mtbing has become over the last 10yrs or so
What with the recession and stuff, could we now start to see a decline in mtbers out and about in such places? I'd imagine ittud(sic) cost a few quid in petrol to get to such places for as lot of folk, and maybe people might think 'I'll save money and ride locally this weekend instead of going to X or Y as I used to'.

No?

In some areas I think you may be correct.
I was down the Lakes on Tues and saw more road bikers than mtbers going about. The older shops who used to stck mostly mtb are now 50/50 road/mtb. I think this could well be due to costs and ease of getting out on a bike and possibly the 30something starting a family making it harder to get time to mtb.
I used to ride in the Lakes 2-3 times a month but that has dwindled to every 3-4mths mainly due to lots of my old riding buddies turning to road biking or retiring from biking altogether Meaning I have fewer people to share costs with. Dodgy knee this year was the main cause really.

could be all the Edinburgh folk who would once have driven to Glentress/Innerleithen are now riding in the Pentlands...

Yup. We should blame all the trail centre haters on here and other forums for advising them to get out on the hills and ride "proper" trails

Posted 4 months ago #

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