I’m not exactly up to speed with whats out ont he market at the moment, however I recently got a new headtorch for about £30 (LED Lenser H7) which has a fantastic light output, adjustable brightness and an adjustable beam pattern. Ok its ‘only’ 150 lumens, however apart from a couple of extra LEDs, some bike specific clamps and a Li-ion battery (i guess this is quite substantial) are boutique brands of bike lights just a bit silly money?

even the expensive ones are a bargain.

it gets dark in winter. riding lights mean you can carry on riding after work. If you live in england/wales, you can ride all the cheeky footpaths.

night riding is ace, you need lights, and they’re cheaper than joining a gym.

Yes – but so much bike stuff is.

But ahwiles does have a good point

a 150 lumnen headtorch is not comparable to most decent bike lights.

However bike lights from the bike components manufacturrers are hard to justify the cost compared with the likes of DX

I know, I mean, you can buy bikes for £150 from Argos too! Disc Brakes, full suspension and everything. OK, it’s ‘only’ 24 gears but I don’t why you’d want to spend more for just 3 more gears and a bit less weight.

I’m not disputing the fact that night riding is ace, its just last time I looked at lights to get relatively advanced features seemed to command really expensive solutions which are often executed in much simpler ways by other manufacturers.

A lot of the cost is the huge battery pack as well, for £60 you could have had a much more powerful emitter and a big rechargable battery pack.

For double that again you could have a quad cree with a big flood, for double again you’d get a solid warranty + support + a nicely CNC’d + waterpoof guaranteed body.

Diminishing returns, as with anything obviously.

Above a certain level you’re paying for refinement, build quality and warranty support. And batteries that don’t melt when you charge them.

My new 1200 lumen helmet light from Four4th was £195, and I consider that good value for money based on the amount of riding it will let me do over the winter months. Plus, the head unit is nicely designed, as is the helmet mount. The light output is perfect for trail riding, and most importantly for me, I was able to call one of the chaps that makes them to discuss the various options, to determine which light I was going to plump for. I also know that their after sales service is good. As was Hope’s when my Vision 4 needed a new light unit cable which was replaced FOC.

The single best purchase I ever made, since get into riding, was a set of those cheap Smart lights off CRC – remember the ones? I think they were £40

I started night riding and never looked back. They did me for 2 winters, out at least 2 nights a week. They opened up a whole new world to me. I think I actually enjoy riding more at night than during the day. As smiles per quid spent go? Beyond comparison!

I’ve long since splashed out on decent (read expensive) lights. You don’t have to spend a fortune though 😀

I think Yetiman’s investment is probably about right

expensive and rip off is very subjective. Bike lights are certainly the former, the latter is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Shonky lights are potentially quite bad, lights that work well and are reliable are worth more.

A decent set of lights will enable you to ride in the evenings for 6 months of the year. It’s a price worth paying imo. 2 dx xml jobbies will cost you £60, get a diffuser for one of them for £3.50. Jobs a good un.

Some may be seem overpriced some are cheap .
the cheapies have got a lot of folks riding in the dark so have been good for the sport

How they make a profit after sending them around the world is beyond me
I would like to think my lights are not a rip off
but the increased speed in which the DX bastids have proliferated is a worry and I can see them making me stop designing and selling my stuff in the not too distant future .

Like bike prices, I think they reached the peak of cheek last year.
Slowly getting more reasonable, but generally still a lot of dough for a torch I reckon.

Don’t you dare Trout!

You and designers like you are what keep whats left of this country ticking. The great tradition of men in sheds have changed the world more than once in the past!

Besides, I suspect that your products will have different customers to the DX stuff. Those that buy DX etc, do so because they are either dipping their toe in the night riding scene, or they simply cant justify the cost.

There are quite a few STWers out there with very posh unobtanium bikes, will happily pay the prices you charge because of a few reasons:

1. You design and invent with biking in mind.
2. You are a highly skilled/motivated manufacturer/designer of bespoke wonder goods
3. After the sale, there is always room from upgrades and tinkering

Mass produced vs bespoke just is not an argument or an issue. Both survive, both face similar challenges, but deal with them in different ways.

Out of about three or four people I know with Bastids, all of them have broken or needed rewiring within a couple of years. The wiring on my Hopes went too but they were fixed (completely new battery unit in fact) within a couple of days of posting them back.

Another mate had a similarly good experience with Light and Motion – his broken HID was upgraded to a new Seca 700.

Not knocking the cheap lights, whatever gets people out riding is cool, but there is a difference between them and the more expensive stuff.

Trout… have you got details of the lights you make/sell? Im after a set of decent lights and wondering if I should part with £320ish for the new Hope R8’s or Exposure 6pack or consider something cheaper or different.

I’d add Lumicycle to the ‘excellent customer service’ bracket Mr Agreeable. I had an issue with my (few year old) battery blowing fuses. It was sorted in a couple of days, and they couldn’t have been more helpful.

You don’t mind paying the extra when you know you’re getting proper back up like that. Stuff like that is built to be serviced/repaired and to have a bit of longevity

Creamegg

some details here need to add some more very soon

On the other hand, when I blew my own bastid up by being a tard, I fixed it myself with a $4 board and a soldering iron …

Decent bike lights are pricey, which is why the whole home-made thing took off.

wors – where do you get the diffuser for that?

I just bought one of those as a head light to compliment the L&M SECA on my bars, but the spot is quite tight, even for a head torch.

Creamegg,

Long standing thread

Out of about three or four people I know with Bastids, all of them have broken or needed rewiring within a couple of years

and???? The P7 bastid was fricken disposable when you compare them to the price of the Hope, buy 4 of the P7 torches and you’d still not paid as much as one Hope (replace with any of the large suppliers, I have nothing again Hope specifically) unit.
As for the terrible inconvenience of repairing a £50 light with a new £2 connector and 1 minute with a soldering iron, oh wow I must go and give Hope 5x the money.

Paying a large amount of money for a light is no guarantee that it’ll be that much better, or produce any more light – definitely wasn’t in my case. You pay your money and make your choice, if you have lots to spend by all mean spend lots I’ll not stop you, but I’ll not be do it anymore either.
Other than to the ‘likes’ of Troutie, for a premium product still cheaper than from Hope et all

thanks Trout and Andy… will have a proper look later. I did actually see your lights on some website yesterday but didt make the connection with the name.

wors – where do you get the diffuser for that?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300545626206&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123%5DDiffuser

thebunk – Member
I know, I mean, you can buy bikes for £150 from Argos too! Disc Brakes, full suspension and everything. OK, it’s ‘only’ 24 gears but I don’t why you’d want to spend more for just 3 more gears and a bit less weight.

27-geared bike has only one more gear than a 24-geared bike. After all all you are adding is one more cog on the back. A 27-geared bike has 27 combinations of 13 gears.
Reference savings you have to take into account how dependant a person is on his bike. Also most car drivers would move up a level or 2 if they could afford with no discernable benefit i.e. you won’t get there any quicker or be nay more comfortable, I am of course ignoring conspicuous consumption. While an extra gear or a lighter bike has clear benefits for the cyclist who uses his bike as a means of transport.

I have 2 x cheapy lights – I’m starting out at night riding. They are the only way many people can afford to try out the sport. But in the longer term if I keep up night riding I would hope to get better lights/more expensive lights. I don’t think £300 for good lights is too bad but I just can’t afford/justify it at the moment.

I hope the really good bespoke/non bastid light makers can hang in for a year or so because I think they will reap the benefit of a much larger potential market by then.

And lets face it, there are some very very expensive light manufacturers out there trading on their name and peddling second rate or old technology – and they will have to raise their game or disappear. Not a bad thing.

27-24 iz 3 more gears innit! And Bouncy Bouncy at both endz! For 150 quid! Bargain!

Toasty – Member
A lot of the cost is the huge battery pack as well, for £60 you could have had a much more powerful emitter and a big rechargable battery pack.

For double that again you could have a quad cree with a big flood, for double again you’d get a solid warranty + support + a nicely CNC’d + waterpoof guaranteed body.

Diminishing returns, as with anything obviously.

Can you give me an example? Is a quad cree a 4 light.
I am using Trail Tech HIDs 650 Lumens, which I am very happy with but I just bought an unused Trail Tech 800 lumens LED. As I already have 2 very large battery space batteries for my Trail tech hids and charger. I thought I had better stick with them. But as stated earlier I am not sure the price is true reflection of costs especially when I look at the cheap but bright LEDs on EBay.

I can see why Trout has concerns but from my experience I bought some of the deal extreme lights which were cool for a couple of winters but after a while you long for something with a little more quality so you naturally move onto better quality lights produced by people like Trout and luminous. From the response and feedback Troutie gets I don’t think he and others like him have much to worry about. The difference in quality of light output between DX lights and high quality units is night and day…

are boutique brands of bike lights just a bit silly money?

They are only silly money relative to your finances or how much pleasure/use you will get out of them.

Quality usually means longevity ,so spread out over the years they can be a cheaper product in the end.

I used to have a cheap £30 quid pair of lights. They were fine until they well apart going “uphill” on a rough climb! I think durability is a large thing you pay for when getting good lights.

thebunk – Member
27-24 iz 3 more gears innit! And Bouncy Bouncy at both endz! For 150 quid! Bargain!

Again you are not taking into account the big benefits for cyclist who use there bikes a lot. And possibly being a little hypocritical if you are car driver?
ALSO
How to count gears. Each chain wheel at the front is equal to 2 at the back ie it is twice the distance apart. If you have 1 cog on the front and 9 on the back then you only have 9 gears?
If you put another cog on the front then that gives you an extra 2 gears thats why when you change down at the front (2 gears) you change up at the back 1 gear total gear change 1 gear? Add another gear at the front you have another 2 gears. Therefore 9 + 2 + 2 equals 13 on a so called 27 geared bike. Removing 1 gear at the back obviously cannot be removing 3 gears????

Wrong place to ask really. Considering we’ll spend 4 figures on a bike frame.

Ask a non-cyclist and they’d demand to know VFM/Why some lights are now approaching 400-500.

LED lights suitable for nightriding are cheap as **** these days!
it’s only when people “think” they need the latest ridiculously bright bicycle specific lights it gets pricey as has always been the case.

Can you give me an example? Is a quad cree a 4 light.

I meant something along the lines of the MJ872 Magicshine jobby which uses 4 XPG emitters to give out a big flooded area.

All the big branded lights use the same range of LEDs, if anything they seem to be much slower to adapt to the new emitters which come out due to their smaller batches.

Curiously I’d rather save my money and get a better battery setup than spend more on the light head 🙁

Ask a non-cyclist and they’d demand to know VFM/Why some lights bikes are now approaching 400-500.

I paid (relatively) a lot for my lights. I don’t have that much money to chuck about, but I considered them an investment as I do a lot of night riding.

To be honest, they’re like a set of car headlights compared to the cheaper ones I had before. As a result, I don’t ride into trees.

Much 😀

GW – Member
LED lights suitable for nightriding are cheap as **** these days!
it’s only when people “think” they need the latest ridiculously bright bicycle specific lights it gets pricey as has always been the case

Trail Techs new MR16 HID bicycle lights give you Lumens: 1,850 ………I want to see the road ahead not Mars or Jupiter. I am more than happy traveling on completly unlit potholed narrow raods using there 650 lumen HID bulbs. I am unly changing to there LEDs (800 lumens)to save replacing bulbs. 1,850 Lumens what the hell would you need that for?? Cars I beleive are well below that?