Been running a 3c shorty up front but as i tend to ride in places which have Rocks,roots and mud,which is the least of the trails i tend to ride,I’m suffering with the grip from the shorty on the rocky,rooty parts of the trails,

i ran a Magic mary for a while and liked it better for the rooty,rocky stuff but swapped it out for the Shorty,but starting to think i should either go back to the Magic mary or see if anything else is out there ,been looking at the Der Baron,

any input would be appreciated

Not that I’ve found . Shortly 3c 2.5 fr and dhr2 rear lovely grub . Shortynisnt the best for hard pack etc but I think it’s great on roots .

can’t say I’ve found it nice on the wet roots n rocks,which is pretty much how its going to be from now till Who knows up here in Scotland

SBC Hillbilly

MM better for rocks and roots.
Shorty better for mud clearance.

Shorty better as a semi mud tyre but not enough volume for really rocky descents.I put the Magic Mary on in the summer

I use shorty in winter for really muddy and DHF rest of year, seems better on rocks roots etc.

As you say, the Der Baron is certainly worth a look.

Der Baron Projekt looks a good option, I loved the original Baron and Der… (I used the Der with 10psi in it, tubeless, for an enduro race once- like having a square wheel on the climbs but it stuck like spunk in the bath… I’m a total coward but it actually made me a bit brave)

TBH what the Shorty has, is the right compromises… It’s not as good as the Mary at bashing through dry rocks etc but it’s better at everything wet. And that’s what it’s for, it’s not an allrounder, it’s a wet/loose tyre so being better at wet/loose is a winning hand IMO.

(comparing 3C with trailstar here; the vertstar pretty much matches the shorty in the wet ime but is heavier and quite a bit draggier. Probably tougher mind)

Haven’t tried the new wider shorty though, quite interested to try a 2.5. You never know, with wet tyres, going wider can ruin them but not always.