Agreed but not as shit as widespread nasty generalisations and racism against lots of perfectly decent people

What are you talking about?

heres a classic case of some made up anti immigrant news…….

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article855857.ece

the report turned out to be completely made up but the myth has entered popular culture

and i bet a few people of the more easily led nature on here will believe it regardless

Yeah. Seriously, what type of ravioli eating person would work for such a rag?

Institute for Fiscal Studies report on EU immigration

We show that A8 immigrants who arrived after EU enlargement in 2004 and who have at least one year of residence, and are therefore legally eligible to claim benefits, are 59 per cent less likely than natives to receive state benefits or tax credits and 57 per cent less likely to live in social housing. Furthermore, even if A8 immigrants had the same demographic characteristics as natives, they would still be 13 per cent less likely to receive benefits and 29 per cent less likely to live in social housing. We go on to compare the net fiscal contribution of A8 immigrants with that of individuals born in the UK, and find that in each fiscal year since enlargement in 2004, irrespective of the way that the net fiscal contribution is defined, A8 immigrants made a positive contribution to the public finances despite the fact that the UK has been running a budget deficit over the last few years. This is because they have a higher labour force participation rate, pay proportionately more in indirect taxes and make much less use of benefits and public services.

Link to the full paper in the link above.

I've got loads of stuff with more specific breakdowns of effects on education, NHS, etc if people want them?

For clarification;

Here is the full list of the A8 countries:

Czech Republic
Estonia
Hungary
Latvia
Lithuania
Poland
Slovakia
Slovenia

Not exactly overwhelming given that information.

The comment by the old lady was about Eastern European immigrants, was it not?

So which countries produce the bad immigrants?

🙄

Lots of numbers to show what horseshit this all is

So, contrary to what MigrationWatch UK had said in 2002, there was an economic case for ‘large scale inward migration’ – without it the growth in the UK economy would at least have slowed dramatically, if not stopped dead in its tracks. It could even have moved the UK into recession, four years before the crisis in the banking and financial services industry actually tipped the UK over the edge.

To paraphrase Morpheus (The Matrix) the world in which foreign-born workers are taking jobs away from Britain’s white working class communities is the world that’s been pulled over their eyes to blind them to the truth; that despite the UK enjoying a near unprecedented period of sustained economic growth between 1997 and the beginning of 2008, the white working-class economy has spent that entire period in recession, particularly in regards to those sectors of the economy that traditionally supported male workers and their families.

Ha, from "Liberal conspiracy" no less! 😆

Yes the website title is (actually) a joke, but he hasn't just pulled these figures out of his arse, have you read it?

Unity is a brilliant writer, he also does the magnificent Ministry of Truth blog.

Quoting characters from the Matrix – priceless! 😆

Quoting characters from the Matrix – priceless!

Well its certainly a different way of getting the point across, Have you got any?

So far all you have done is try to shoot the messenger.

Must calibrate the 'scope better then 🙂

I have not got a problem with anyone coming here to work. As long as they pay their taxes and get the fair market rate for their labour, which is the whole point of coming here for the people from the A8 countries.

Which, as both things I've posted show, is happening.

Agreed, I have not disputed this.

so indeed tose claiming immigrants are ruining the country are either misinformed or bigots?

I'd prefer to think misinformed. I don't like to think that most of the people complaining (there are a lot!) just plain dislike eastern europeans, rather mislead by freds employer and some other papers.
Branding them bigots, xenophobes etc is over reationary.
It seems some are too liberal with accusations of racism on here IMO. Immigration is a legitimate political topic which the people should be allowed to question in the same way that they can question economic or defence policy.

I don't think anyone is saying immigration shouldn't be debated. The trouble is though that the vast majority (if not all) arguments against immigration are based the idea that British born people should have priority over jobs and public services purely based on their nationality. Which I'm afraid to say is racist. It may well not be the same as going on a NF march and doing nazi salutes, but it's still racist all the same.

I'm all for a debate on immigration based on something other than race/nationality, but I've yet to hear an argument from the anti brigade which isn't based on this prejudice.

I'm a 2nd generation immigrant – I like your women and I love your jobs. I enjoy your benefits and when I crash my bike your NHS is lovely too.

Or more like my mother was a political refugee, she spoke 6 langauges fluently, worked here from day one for the British consulate and contributed more to the UK than a large number of UK born people. Never the less she was often a victim of ignorance and prejudice during her 50 years here.
One thing she often said was "when in Rome" she had her culture and her ways but truly believed England was a fantastic place and integrated well into British life and brough a lot to the Bristish people she met (mostly recipies tbh).

I think most issues around immigration come from a feeling of societies of people who don't want to, or can't join in. Until we find a way to effectively integrate all comers there will always be division and conflict. I think London does this well, I think other places struggle.

The other thing I see is some people complain about "taking our jobs" which to be fair is usually a British employer taking advantage of migrants who are desperate to work and happy to be paid less than their UK conterparts so the actual shitbag is often a Brit. Everyday I talk to people working On HSMP visas being paid much less than the UK born staff in EXACTLY the same role.

I'm not one of those who believe in the whole "british jobs for british people" thing. Employers should be able to employ who they like, free market and all that. However, to call it racist is also wrong IMO.

but truly believed England was a fantastic place and integrated well into British life

yes you are trully integrated into little englandshire society and a true Insel Affe* if you can interchange the word England and Britain

* German for Island Monkey there jokey nickname for us

Ear, backander; WTF gave you the idea I work for the Scum? 🙄

I do know a Sun journalist; nice middle -class lad from St Albans actually.

So… has anyone come up with any evidence that immigrants are damaging the nation then?

Kimbers; what that article failed to mention is that the swans had probably been raped by Muslim gypsies first… 🙄

Junkyard, I live in London, England and I'm British…What?

So… has anyone come up with any evidence that immigrants are damaging the nation then?

I didn't claim that they did. I would like to see the financial cost of illegal immigration though.

I didn't claim that they did

So if immigration isn't actually damaging the nation, why the problem with it then? 🙄

I'm more concerned with the Human cost of illegal immigration… 🙁

So if immigration isn't actually damaging the nation, why the problem with it then?

I haven't got a problem with it. As long as the immigrants contribute when given the opportunity.
I have a problem with lazy bastards, not foreign people. If we could get away with getting rid of the obvious workshy serial doleys (foreign or indiginous) then I'd be quite happy.

I haven't got a problem with it.

So why are we even discussing it then?

I'm certainly no right winger or racist but…

Whats the last quote supposed to mean fred?
Are you telling me that you think I'm racist?

Interestingly, the first result when you search for "costs of illegal immigration uk" is this article:

The Independent

Which suggests:

A vast hidden army of illegal immigrants ensures that each day thousands of offices and homes are cleaned, streets are swept and drinks are served in Britain's pubs and clubs.

From London's building sites to farms in East Anglia, and from late-night takeaways to the treacherous sands of Morecambe Bay, they generally fill the jobs deemed too menial or too hazardous by UK nationals. If discovered, they face deportation. But according to a radical new study published today, an amnesty on their status could be worth up to £6bn to the economy.

These are all jobs which need to be done by someone. By using the illegals, the UK effectively loses out in tax. The employers are able to exploit the workers as they have no rights, giving them poor wages and poor conditions. There are no winners.

The employers are the winners, which takes me back to an earlier point, its not imigration thats a problem, its employment law, housing policy etc etc…