Can get it at a decent price but looks more for bulking up.

Got me thinking about Creatine also (as it is part of the ‘formula’). Used it a couple of times when I played rugby but never really thought about it since I have been cycling. Anyone use it? Find it helpful for cycling?

Yeah I used Cyclone as a recovery drink for a while, it was good, but just so so expensive! If you can get it at a decent price then go nuts, but personally I find High 5 as effective and about 1/3 the price! It was recommended by a coach as being more effective than RecoverMax, apparently there’s evidence that low volumes of creatine certainly don’t have any detrimental effect.

I always find recovery drinks hard to justify, as you never really know how you’d have felt without them!

Try Maxifuel Protrient instead. Very impressed.

Know what you mean Njee. Always wonder how much is real vs placebo.

That said I often have a long delay from finishing to being able to eat properly and when I take the recovery drink I feel stronger the next day. Maybe just placebo but even so a worthwhile effect .

That said I often have a long delay from finishing to being able to eat properly and when I take the recovery drink I feel stronger the next day

Me too, Torq strawbs & cream here, when you need something straight after a long ride they’re pretty good, a friend of mine swears by compression tights too to combat muscle fatigue.

Whilst we’re on the subject was looking at this site yesterday Infinit

Yep, although I’m sure they do make a difference I just couldn’t get my head about spending £100 on drink in one go to get the good quantity breaks! If you have another source though I’m sure it’s good, found the orange very palatable!

Try ZipVit Sport ZV3 – all natural stuff

Go onto supplyment centre and look at the matrix recovery drink good price for a big tub of about 50-60 servings . Got the protein and amino acids to aid recovery its about 2-3 x cheaper than maxi mucle and the banana taste fantastic .

Its worth remembering that all these supplements are just that – and you can get all you need from good quality natural food. Also worth noting that different products suit different people.

You do however have to eat sh*tloads if you go down the food route to get the same dosage.

I’ve experiemented with a few over the years and my Favorites are:

Myprotien Creapump – pre workout Creatine & Taurine – I use this for winter strength training, it really allows you to push a few more reps.

Myprotien Creatine / L Glutimine – daily morning supplement – £5 per bag for each product and lasts about 4 months – just mix with water & fruit juice with your breakfast

Myprotien Recovery XS – post workout / ride recovery – slightly unique in that it contained Creatine, Protien & L Glut, but also minerals salts & vit C to combat dehydration – this makes it perfect for cyclists. I can feel the difference the next day if I don’t knock some of this down post ride.

FWIW MyProtien seem to be cheaper than most others and great quality / service.

A word of warning – Creatine is a dehydrator so drinking lots of water everyday is a must.

I use Allsports Amino Load and can really recommend it. Used to really struggle to ride to work after a hard turbo session the night before but quick bottle of AL and I’m good to go in the morning.

Very light to drink, no thick shakes.

No creatine in it. I don’t get the theory that a little bit of something does you good so if you had loads of it you will be awesome. You would have to eat loads of raw meat to get the dose from some of these creatine supplements.

Creatine is also banned in France as well.

Servo – your part right in your latter statement, yet part wrong.

Vit C for example, you body can only take so much so excess is flushed out through your urine – no point then taking more than it can handle.

Protien however is used for muscle repair/build, and the more the better (1000 bricks to build a house, 100,000 to build a castle analogy) so you need to take an amount which suits your desired goal – but TOO much does have side effects on your body.

I’d also like you to provide an informative link to the french creatine ban if you can – as creatine is found naturally in lots of foods (fish, meat) I’d wonder how thier atheletes are getting on without it, and what they are doing to replace it? Seems extreme/odd to have a total ban as its a natural product?

iDave – what flavour ZipVit Sport ZV3 would you recommend?

Pedalhead went to see a nutrionist who suggested the chocolate milkshake (ala Nesquik) is as beneficial and good for you as any recovery drink!

I drink that or sometimes High 5 4:1 stuff that can be used for riding as well as recovery, got the berry one and it’s quite nice and I find it easy on the stomach.

Myprotein website is about the best for these products. They do a pure whey protein mix for about £15.

Still amazes me that some people stump out that amount of cash on these tubs…..

From the guys I speak to at work most are a complete waste of money. But technically the people selling it aren’t breaking the law…

rewski – I’ve only ever used the chocolate ZV3. With semi-skimmed milk instead of water after resistance training.

ZipVit, isn’t that the stuff with the magic “fat digesting protein” 😆

With semi-skimmed milk

On your day off I hope? Thanks
😉

The first rule of iDieting is “do what iSay not what iDo” 😆

Kryton57 – I’m with you all the way on protein supplements but am dubious about creatine. It’s normally a very small part of a normal diet so eating a lot of it makes me nervous.

There is quite a few articles on google about “creatine banned in france” but there isn’t much official stuff I could find.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ACreatine_supplements#Ban_in_France_and_elsewhere

Years ago when creatine supplements first came out I bought some. A months supply was £40!!!! Decided against it and took the bottle back unopened as didn’t want to a) spend that forever if it worked and b) felt a bit uneasy that I was buying better performance (as opposed to a better bike of course!)

It’s possible to find the ingredients for most products, and the research isn’t hard to find either.

6g L-Glutamine
3g HMB
3g D-Ribose

Straight after exercise.

For the high calorie recovery drink stuff add ~10g whey protein and 40g maltodextrin and 20g fructose.

For low calorie just a big scoop of whey protein.

As for cost, still costs less than half a can of coke.

As for results, I reckon my legs feel a whole lot less ‘dead’ the day after a big ride. Not that I’m training for anything but it does mean I can go for a ride consecutive nights without feeling any worse towards the end of the week.

Does anyone know the effect of going beyond the usual 3:1/4:1 ratio carbs:protein? I.e. is adding more whey protein to the drink counter productive?

With semi-skimmed milk instead of water after resistance training.

On your day off I hope?

The 3:1 stuff is designed to spike your insulin (chocomilk/nesquik etc are also all about 3:1), so doesn’t this just fall into the ‘anything goes, 30min pre/post resistance exercise?’ part of idave?

any program (even iDave diet) has exceptions and adaptation, but it’s impossible to list them all without writing a book!

the iDave diet is for weight loss, not weight gain. building lean body mass is helped with a bit of milk. that’s all. I think 250ml skimmed milk twice a week might be OK, even for food nazis.

skimmed milk

tastes like it contains 99% water anyway.

sorry i meant semi-skimmed – skimmed is just white pish

Just use a decent quality whey protein, don’t see the need to spend that much on Maximuscle stuff. Have a look at discount-supplements.co.uk, or just google ‘discount whey protein,’ there’s lots of sites with good deals.

Servo, I but 4 months supply of top Creatine (creapure) from MyProtien for about £6. Use it as recommneded – about 5g per day.

ChunkyMTB – you are right it IS a complete waste of time to supplement with these products if you are not training religiously or more than probably 3 times per week, using the right products – its worth learning about it all first – thisisnotaspoon has the right idea – understand the content, how it should be used, source it (naturally or otherwise) then use it.

Its all about understanding physiology and science and doing the work. For example, taking protien everyday won’t turn you into Arnie, unless you “break” the muscles by working out very hard, for the protien to be able to repair/rebuild.

Where it becomes right to use it is where you are working out hard, and use the products to repair/re-build yourself as a matter of convienience over eating 6 chicken breasts and a gazillion eggs a day.

Use it as recommneded – about 5g per day.

My gym freak housemate said not to go over 1g pre and post exercise, any more was just pushing money to the retailer and protentialy storeing up problems for yourself. This from a guy who thought nothing of being a human pin cussion with all the steroids/hormones/stuff he took!

With all due respect Kryton57… I think the people I work with know a thing or two about these things. I also now a fair bit.

But it’s not my money, so what do I care.

Sorry Chunky, I’m not a mind reader and neither (to my knowledge anyway) do I know you or your work colleagues or in which industry you work and the qualification of either to comment on the subject.

If you have insider info, why not share it for the benefit of us all that are apparantly pi**ing our money away?

Happy to be enlightened…

Just one of losts of studies:

For creatine:
http://www.sncsalvador.com.br/artigos/efeitos-da-suplementacao-de-creatina-na-performance-e-treino.pdf

this extract about protien is good too:

[/i]Is more better?

Eating more than the recommended protein intake offers no benefits. Apart from being costly, a protein-based diet commonly displaces important carbs from the diet. That is, if you have an omelet and a protein shake for breakfast instead of cereal with banana, you’ll consume fewer carbs to fuel your muscles properly.

Carbs are the primary fuel for athletes who do muscle-building resistance exercise. Once your muscles become carb-depleted, fatigue sets in and your workout is over. Your diet should provide extra carbs, not extra protein.

If you consume too much protein from supplements, you may also fail to invest in optimal health. For example, I had one client who daily ate five protein shakes and four protein bars to the exclusion of standard food. Displacing natural foods with engineered foods (such as protein supplements) limits your intake of the vegetables, fruits, grains, fiber, phytochemicals, natural vitamins and other health-protective nutrients that Nature puts in whole foods.

Pre- and post-exercise protein

Q. I’ve heard I should eat a protein bar for a pre-exercise snack?

A. Protein has typically been consumed at meals, away from the time of exercise. New research suggests eating protein before you work out can optimize muscle development. Pre-exercise protein digests into amino acids that are then ready and waiting to be taken up by the muscles after a strength workout.

This does not mean you’ll evolve into Charles Atlas; you’ll simply optimize your body’s ability to build and repair muscle at that moment.

You got to drink alot of milk to get 40 g of protein which equates to alot of calories and sugar as milk has a fair bit of that too . Matrix protein mixes with water has low sugar low carb and high protein . It may be better to get it from food but if you want to lose weight as well its hard to keep within your goals without a little help. Plus 24 quid for 50 shakes is cheap imo.

nesquik plus maxim plus skimmed powder milk?

Good point Tony – supporting my earlier comment – its for convienience. For the doubters they could now work out how many good quality chicken breasts would get them to 40g protien, x 50 servings x £s.

Thats 1.5 chicken breast per serving btw, at £5 per 5 in Sainsuburys (roughly speaking) Thats 75 chicken breasts for fifty servings, 15 packs or £75.

More than £24 eh?

*cant believe I was sad enough to work that out* 😯

Yea, but the chicken/steak/fish is tastier!

Compare it to a can of coke, or the petrol required to drive about 5 miles to a ride. I just view it as a cheep, failry tasty drink, quite look foreward to a pint of milk and a scoop of strawbery flavoured whey protein after a ride.

Breakfast is usualy museli with the same strawbery whey mixed into half a pint of yogurt. Tasty!

You’re right ‘spoon, its a nutritional beverage, not a route-to-being-an-athlete-miracle-drink. You still need to put the hard yards in.

Btw, do you know what they call a quarter pounder in france…. 😉