Been fancying giving sailing a try for while now and took Mrs W out on Lochgoilhead yesterday on a little 19ft fishing boat and she (much to my surprise) loved it! This now gives me a bit of a dilemma, as prior to this I had only thought about a sailing boat but may now also be interested in a motor cruiser. This would make more sense at the moment due to having no boat experience and dogs!

Does anyone have experience of using a boat for weekends/days away and is it possible on a modest budget ie. <£4k initial outlay. A rough idea of mooring and running costs would also be very helpful but I realise that’s a ‘how long is a piece of string’ type question.

Cheers

IME a boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into. Ours kept costing money even after it sank (bad storm cleared a few moorings that night).

Just say no.

This now gives me a bit of a dilemma, as prior to this I had only thought about a sailing boat but may now also be interested in a motor cruiser. This would make more sense at the moment due to having no boat experience and dogs!

this never bothers the hire companies on the norfolk broads, sail or motor experienced or not they’ll let anyone have a go 🙂

Ours kept costing money even after it sank

That is highly unfortunate. 🙂

I was up at Tarbert earlier in the year, there is some lovely sailing to be had round that area, but what are you going to do with the boat?
Do you want to cruise down the loch for lunch and back – is there somewher decent to eat 2 hours * 5knots away?
Re – moorings, you have to be really sure that you will be needing to use the boat *alot* to make it worthwhile.
For occasional use, something you can put on a trailer is much cheaper to keep, and keep in good condition, but of course it is much more hassle to put in the water so you never use it.

A drascombe lugger would be an OK place to start looking, can be had for £4k – easy to sail – space for a small outboard to help you out – fits on a trailer.

ps mooring comments based on southcoast prices -may be much less of an issue up there.

^^^ THIS Trice ^^^

I would say if you are serious about getting a boat, go and do your competent crew and then Day Skipper. Then perhaps look at renting for a bit, charter. Great when the weather’s good, not so when you are waiting for half decent conditions.

Also are you good with your hands, you can do many of the jobs yourself….

They can be fun, but they are a money pit…….

My 2p

1) Dog’s love sailing boats, our’s even learnt to move to windward when anyone shouted going about! Only ever jumped off once and learnt that lesson!

2) Get a sailing boat, my experience of “motor cruisers” is it’s a bit like how I imagine going for a nice drive in the country to be like, if I was on a tractor, with an uncomfortable seat and a broken exhaust. I dunno, generaly feels like there’s nothing to do, and too noisy to carry on a conversation, whereas sailing has plenty to do to keep you ocupied and the only noise is the water and the wind.

IME a boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into

Depends how much money you have, as a kid we sailed on a shoestring, I suspect we probably went through three or four trailer sailers and small cruiesrs without replacing/repairing anything more than a trailer wheel bearing. On the other hand my current racing dinghy eat’s £20 notes every weekend. Baiscly the hole expands to consume your budget.

Something like this, big enough to spend a week on, small enough to tow behind the average STW standard issue VAG 2.0 TDI, and enough change to go on an RYA course to learn how to sail.
http://www.swift18.org/Swift18/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1296 . A drascombe isn’t a bad idea either, very forgiving, but not quick.

Mooring’s are very location specific, they can be £1500+ for a marina berth on the south coast, or a tenth of that for a drying mooring somewhere not accessible from London. Something you can launch from a trailer does have advantages both in cost and easy maintenance, and you can always drive it a few miles up the coast to go sailing somwhere new.

I cant comment on UK mooring charges, as I keep my boat in majorca, however, regardless of actual costs, getting something you keep on a trailer on your drive is going to be the cheapest way of doing it.

Having said that, there is a lot to be said for keeping a boat in a marina, where you just turn up and off you go, without any of the hassle of towing a trailer , launching it and recovering it.

I would say that the day skipper course is probably overkill at this point in your journey, stick to competent crew (if sailing is your thing) or maybe even just an ICC (internal certficate of competence). Theres no substitute for experience, so if you have someone you can go out with that will be best, it will probably also help inform you of what sort of boat you really want/need.

You need to decide what sort of boating you want to do (sail or power), and where you want to do it ( lake, coastal, rivers etc), that will dictate the type of boat (and size) you should get.

I like speedboats, cant stand chugging along at 5 knots, at least you can go to more places then, but that might not be suitable for your location. But for weekends/nights away, I’d pick a cuddy cabin sports boat from one of the american brands, probably around the 21-22 foot length, or as big as your budget will allow, it wont be the height of luxury, it’ll be like floating camping.

Dont underestimate the costs of other kit you need in addition to the boat itself, it can add up:-

eg – life jackets, flares, VHF radio, suitable clothing (in the UK), handheld GPS (maybe not required, depends where you boat).

£4k should easily get you something from either the power or sail category second hand.

If going for power (especially speed boats), fuel costs can be significant, a 21 foot petrol speed boat will probably do about 3mpg, a displacement boat will be a lot more efficient.

Boats arent cheap to run, but they dont have to be prohibitively expensive either , especially if you trailer it, and do your own maintenance.

B O A T = Break Open Another Thousand – probably not with what your talking about, but can quickly get expensive.

This would make more sense at the moment due to having no boat experience

Just on the experience point, a few week’s ago I was involved in a “try sailing” day where people could rock up, jump in a dinghy and someone would take them sailing for 20-30min. Once off the beach I gave everyone of them the helm and out of 30+ people I took out there we’re 2 who just couldn’t do it (they were a couple as well!) and they really were completely clueless. OK so there’s a lot to learn about navigation, safety, and actualy getting good rather than just making the boat go in 20 minutes, and it’s harder when there’s not someone to nudge you in the right direction when things go wrong. But the youngest was 3 years old and could just about grasp it*, and the 5-6 year olds all got it in that short time.

On the other hand, sailing is a team passtime/sport. I reckon that more couples swap and sail with someone else than sail together, probaly for good reason!

*so sailing is only marginaly more complicated than potty training

to expand on my previous post a bit:-

Its hard to quantify costs without narrowing down the type of boat, how it will be kept (trailer or mooring), and whether you are handy with spanners etc or will be paying somone else.

But here are my yearly costs for a 26 foot diesel powered planing boat (these will be at the very expensive end of the spectrum, given the location and the fact that I dont do any work on it myself because its 1500 miles away from me):-

– Engine service (oil,filters other consumables) , volvo penta diesel – £500
– Outdrive service – average £500 per year, some years more, some years less. A displacement boat probably wont have an outdrive, so wont have this cost
– Antifoul the hull – £500
– Other bits that have broken – £250
– lift in and out of water – £175
– hard standing charges – £100
– insurance – £300
– mooring charge £3500
– fuel for 50-60 hours use per year – £1200

Total = £5825

If you’re keeping it on your drive, and you’re going to do the maintenance yourself, then your costs are vastly reduced. Bear in mind these are balearic island prices, so even if you kept something in a marina on the south coast of the UK and paid someone else to do the work, I’d expect your costs to be a lot less than this.

Thanks all, particularly TINAS and julians.

It’s a lot to take in but I like the look of that Swift, which is the sort of thing I hoped might be within budget.

Is there a ‘better’ time of year to look to buy? Many of the broker sites I’ve had a look at this week seem to have virtually every boat reduced in price!

What Julians said is pretty spot on regards costs. We had a 24′ speedy boat that was great fun but thirsty (250hp petrol engine will do that).
What he didn’t mention was that basically engines and water (especially seawater) really don’t go well together and there will be plenty to spend on stuff that just wears/corrodes such as heat interchangers, tilt rams, potential prop damage, blah blah blah.
Really like having ours but was so glad when it eventually sold. If I had the money I’d get a smaller rib now. Say about 18′ with a nice Evinrude outboard that I could store under cover at home and do a fair bit of servicing myself. Modern Evinrudes can be winterised by just effectively pressing a button…. that saves £100 straight away!

Edit: That swift looks OK.

It’s a lot to take in but I like the look of that Swift, which is the sort of thing I hoped might be within budget.

It’s cheap-ish for a swift, but swifts are popular for good reason. Other similar 18ft boats can be had for less.

Is there a ‘better’ time of year to look to buy? Many of the broker sites I’ve had a look at this week seem to have virtually every boat reduced in price!

Same as convertible cars, mid winter is cheapest, but then you’re likely buying boats that are in “end of season condition” and need some TLC (anti fouling, replacing anything worn out etc), you’ve also got a few months of stoage fees and generaly doing the winter jobs. So it’s 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

You put “Motor Boat” in your OP for that reason I’m just going to point and laugh.

😆

@woody, there was another similar thread a while back.

I am a fully signed up sailing boat enthusiast although did own a cheap rib for a while too.

You are right to ask about running costs and noting that you question is equivalent to how long is a piece of string.

Plan A would be to visit some sailing/boating clubs in your area and see what sort of boats they have, what are the membership costs (you don’t have to be a member of a club but I suspect you’ll get a huge amount of value from one inc advice etc), do they have club moorings.

If you bought a simple trailerable boat, where reasonably handy with DIY fixes you could definitely buy a decent small sailing boat with an outboard for less than £4k and spend £750-1000 a year running it (prior thread we talked about Wayfarers which are nice family sailing boats) This would mean it’s probably launched each time you want it rather than something on a mooring.

As per posts above if you get into larger boats, inc motor boats costs will spiral.

Good luck, getting afloat is a great joy.

EDIT: The used boat market is very soft, far more sellers than buyers (my boat took 24 months to sell and a 20% reduction in an already reasonable asking price). Most people buy in the winter/spring so they can prepare for the year ahead. Sellers know if they don’t sell now they are likely to be owning the boat another 6-9 months. OP you should do your research and think of a purchase in time for 2015 season. Go to some clubs, do a course, rent a boat etc …

I did all my boating exams at Cumbrae, stayed there for a month. It was freezing in November but loved it.

Over the years I have had all sort of boats but by far the most fun is my current SIB (small inflatable) Zodiac with 15hp outboard. Cost me 2k & 15 gbp a day in fuel.

No trailer, just roll it up & stick it in the boot, can launch anywhere, explore inside caves, snorkelling etc.

Hope it helps

Inflatables (both rigid and not) are great fun, and very cheap to run.

I started out on a 3.4m zodiac with 8 hp outboard (when I was about 10 years old) , great fun. Then had various other inflatables over the years, some great times were had on inflatables. Depends what you want to do with it though, you’re not going to be overnighting on a small inflatable, thats for sure.

Small boats are great fun , I’ve just bought a cheap inflatable kayak from decathlon to enable me to get to places I cant get to with the proper boat, ie caves, beaches, into the shallows etc.

Plan A would be to visit some sailing/boating clubs in your area and see what sort of boats they have,

The other thing (if you’re that way inclined*) is you might get to crew on other boats, particulary if they race. Sailors are a friendly** bunch.

*do you like sitting on hard surfaces and pointy things whilst being hosed down with a jetwash and shouted at?

**drunk, best time it about half an hour after the last race of the day.

An article some of you sailing types may enjoy…

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jun/21/sailing-into-hell-two-men-dingy-dangerous-journey

In July 1964, two men set off in a dinghy to sail from Scotland to Norway. Fifty years on, Bill Brockbank tells Charlie English how he and Frank Dye, ‘the madman of the Atlantic’, capsized four times, braved gale force winds and survived to tell the incredible tale of their ‘holiday’ on the high seas.

By mid-afternoon it was clear even to Frank Dye that the summer cruise was not going to plan. The storm had been building in the northeast Atlantic since noon and by 5.30pm had reached what the Met Office described as a “severe gale”, force nine on the Beaufort scale. Banshees were screaming round Dye’s boat at close to 50 knots, and the sea had been whipped into a deafening grey-green mountainscape whose waves stood four storeys high. It was the sort of day on which fishermen drowned, but Dye and his crewman Bill Brockbank were out in it, in the middle of the Norwegian Sea, in a little sailing boat called Wanderer.

Break Out Another Thousand

I’ve got a story to tell, forgive me for the hijack.

I’m a long serving member of HISC and a couple of years ago we had a trawler wash up on the beach in Chichester Harbour. We’ve got an inshore lifeboat station at the mouth of the harbour and we know these guys very well indeed.
So we’re downing pints in the bar one night, flares go out, 2 bangs and the lifeboat chaps are out of the club like it’s the next WW or something like. We half expected the early warning station to go off at Thorney too with the whoosh the lifeboat guys exited the club.
Anyways, it’s blowing 25knts SSW on an ebb and Chichester Bar is rocking up some decent 6-9ft rolling breaking waves, excellent to windsuf on if it wasn’t night time.
Early next morning and I’m back at the club scoffing breakfast and this trawler is listing nicely on the shingle and me and my mate wander down to it. Looks a bit “weathered” from the club and we meandered off and took a peek. It was a wreck. I’m not kidding, this thing was full of holes, planks missing, water leaks and was in, what looked like, irreparable state. No glass in the cockpit, rusted blocks and anchor, shagged prop and half a propshaft, no radio, gps, charts, DR equipment, nadda, nowt.
Annnd we laughed. Back at the club and we see a couple of new faces, couple of Geordies it turned out. Ones reading the Sun and the other just sitting in a chair, “Hey” I say, and we get the story of how the trawler became theirs and an interesting tale of how it happened to be on our shoreline.
Turns out they bought it from Mevagissy from eBay, not seen before purchase, spent £500 on it, then intended to bring it all the way around the coast and upto Newcastle. Got into trouble with the Coast Guard for nightime motoring with no lights and recommended they turn into Plymouth, they refused and carried on through the night up until Bournemouth where another coast guard was on the lookout for them, they carried on, and on and ended up in the Solent where the coast guard again was waiting for them. This coast guard put them into Hamble where they were given a rough time for navigating without lights, radio, radar, charts and such. The Geordies blew them off and pootled around the coast until they hit Hayling Island whereby the engine came dislodged and the prop failed, they got tossed about on the Bar and the lifeguards pulled them into the Harbour and on the beach.
Asked how they intended to navigate, the “skipper” said, and I quote, “hug the shoreline until I can see my mate on the cliffs flashing his lights to let me know where to come in”.
Now, I’m not one to point and laugh, but we did.

The boat was scuppered, and ended up being taken into Hayling Yacht Harbour and sold for scrap, it cost the Geordies £6k to get it towed to the Marina and dismantled. The MCA got involved and the “skipper” got a warning and refusal of any license to “skipper” a boat in the future.

Hijack over.

Heard somthing similar but they only got the Isle of Sheppy, they ran aground on their third lap of the island.

So we’re downing pints in the bar one night, flares go out, 2 bangs and the lifeboat chaps are out of the club like it’s the next WW or something like

Don’t use them up our way now…. all done by pagers. Flares and bangs are allegedly just a a public awareness thing.

2) Get a sailing boat, my experience of “motor cruisers” is it’s a bit like how I imagine going for a nice drive in the country to be like, if I was on a tractor, with an uncomfortable seat and a broken exhaust. I dunno, generaly feels like there’s nothing to do, and too noisy to carry on a conversation, whereas sailing has plenty to do to keep you ocupied and the only noise is the water and the wind.

That’s an extraordinary amount of bollocks being spouted right there – sounds like you’ve been on the wrong boats.

FWIW, yachties are often worse than 29er owners. We had ‘friends’ who wouldn’t even talk to the family after the yacht got traded for a motorboat. Been in marina’s where yachties won’t even take the rope of a motorboat. Not all places/people are like this, but there are some right arseholes kicking around (Rhu is a good place to find these types).

If going down the motor route, I’d suggest doing the Power Boat Level 2 course instead of Competent Crew as it’s much better for boat handling.

I’ve been lucky enough to enjoy a load of time on yachts and power boats. Yachts are great fun but fairly useless if you want to “make progress*” and the wind/tide/both dare to be against you, also expect long periods of doing very little. On the other hand, when the wind gets up you’ll have a load of fun, but you won’t be relaxing so much.

On the other hand, motorboats come with fuel bills that make sheikhs weep. In and around the Clyde or the West Coast they are great for island hopping, but long passages are never going to be exciting. Bad weather means just holding on with nothing to occupy you until your destination. However, if you want to nip off to Cumbrae for a spot of dinner after work they’re very handy! Also, hitting ‘go’ on the autopilot then cracking open the bacon/sausages/beer/wine is pretty handy too 🙂

FWIW, yachties are often worse than 29er owners. We had ‘friends’ who wouldn’t even talk to the family after the yacht got traded for a motorboat. Been in marina’s where yachties won’t even take the rope of a motorboat. Not all places/people are like this, but there are some right arseholes kicking around (Rhu is a good place to find these types).

It does amuse me the amount of hatred there is between yachties and motorboaters (stinkpots?). It goes both ways as well. I just don’t get why it occurs, I’ve done both, and decided I don’t like sailing,but each to their own and all that.

It’s a bit like walkers vs mountain bikers. However both unite for the common enemy that is jetskiers.

There’s a French catamaran that comes to Majorca for July and August and always drops anchor in the same spot in the bay and doesn’t move for 2 months, if a motoboat dare also drop anchor within say 200m of them, the mad old French lady on board starts ranting and raving ,trying to get you to move on, she mooned me once. Now it’s a yearly event anchoring near the mad old bat and seeing what response you can get out of her.

Hah! I suspected there may be a bit of ‘them and us’ with motors vs yachts and tbh I’m told old to care – I just want something that suits and provides and interesting way to spend a few days away.

I’m from a long line of trawlermen from Banff and the sea/water has always had a draw. Advice has been great (from both sides of the fence) and I’ll take it on onboard.

Cheers