Wouldn’t normally ask for this sort of advice on an internet forum but here goes.

Over xmas myself and my better half did some volunter work for a local homeless charity which involved cooking them dinner on xmas day. The kitchen we were working in was located in the charity’s centre as was the dining room where the clients were having xmas day.
We were greeted on arival by a member of the charity’s staff who showed us to the staff office which had a sign on the door saying ‘staff only’ and told us that it would be fine for us to leave our personel belongings there as it was the staff office.
The day went well till we came to leave when it became apparant that the girlfriends handbag had been taken. It turns out that the staff office is never kept lock, although we were not told this by the member of staff and if we had been we would never have left our belongings there.
The charity submitted a claim to their insurance company and we reported the loss to the police as soon as we could (the local office was closed on xmas and boxing day). The charity’s insurance company have refused to payout as there was not technically a break in and the charity are saying that we should refer this to our insurance company as they are not liable for the loss either. We don’t see why we should lose our no claims bonus and pay increased premiums as a result.

My question is ‘does the charity have any obligation to us and the safety of our belongings while on their premises and if we decided to persue this in a small claims court is it likely that it would go in our favour or are the charity able to wash their hands of the matter. In other words is there a case to bring against the charity and if so on what grounds?

If anyone knows where we would stand on this i would be most greatful in hearing from them.

Cheers

BigSi

That’s a rubbish thing to happen to a volunteer who’s giving up their time, but are you really sure you want to sue a charity? 😯

They said it would be OK. Their submission of a claim almost admits responsibility.

I think you can sue them. Otherwise you are making a pretty big donation 😉

That is really rubbish but ultimately you are responsible for your own items, unless you specifically asked if the room would be kept locked and only staff could ever have access you really dont have a leg to stand on IMO. But I’m not a lawyer.

When my other half was working at the Edinburgh festival she had her bag stolen in very similar circumstances, but as the room was not locked she should have known better than to leave it there, it was just what everyoen did. Much like speeding 😀

Not a lawyer so can’t help you there, but morally I don’t think I could take that sort of action, especially if there was a way to use your own insurance.

Make a positive out of a negative and explain to them that you had considered taking this action but won’t if they can show they have made measurable improvments for others in the same situation in future (a couple of lockers, signs up saying not to leave valuables etc).

i think the charity is taking the p@ss, these guys gave up their time over xmas (i’ll really bet they are innundated by volunteers at that time ‘he says sarcastically’) and now they are being fobbed off.

make no mistake, charity is a very good business to be in. only a few years ago the nspcc were discovered to be taking something like 88p+ in every £1 donated for ‘admin’.

this charity, whoever they are, can easily afford to reimburse you!

p.s. threaten them with a story in the local paper.

It doesn’t sound as if your items were left in what is classified as a public place as the door was clearly marked Staff Only therefore only staff should be in there locks or no locks. I would ask to see the policy small print and for them to establish what basis they are refusing the claim on. My experience with claims in customer service is that this would be covered (although I am talking from experience of lost/stolen mobile phones). It all comes down to policy exclusions.

p.s. what is with chicks and bags? I’m guessing your valuables (wallet & mobile) were stuffed into your back pocket and were absolutely fine!

We wouldn’t be thinking of taking legal action other than the fact that they have not been very helpful with the situation since their insurance company kicked the claim out.
They were all nice as pie when they wanted our help and time but their stance since the decision by the insurers has been ‘tough’ which i find very disturbing for an organisation who bill themselves as ‘a caring charity’.
The claim was for just over £600 (not a made up claim as everything was priced allowing for replacement value and taking in to account wear & tear etc) but they haven’t even offered to make a partial payout without prejustice (or what ever its known as).
Thought about going to the local papers with this but don’t really want to put other people off giving up their time to help.

only a few years ago the nspcc were discovered to be taking something like 88p+ in every £1 donated for ‘admin’.

this charity, whoever they are, can easily afford to reimburse you!

What’s your source for that figure? From every pound the NSPCC currently spend around 80p on activities to end cruelty to children. Either they’ve turned their business around in a rather implausible way, or you’re spouting some bollocks urban legend. I know which I think it is…

WTF do you take to a charity dinner cooking that could be valued at £600?! If I were going to a homeless shelter to cook meals the LAST thing I’d take would be my wallet or my phone?!

I worked/ran homeless hostels fro about 8 years. What on earth were you thinking taking £600 of stuff into a homeless hostel?
tuff tits imo

‘legal head on’ you do not have a case, as it was your possessions, and you were ultimately responsible for where you left them.

You left your handbag in an unoccupied room, in a place where you knew nobody, and then when it gets nicked you try and claim 600 quid for the loss, it was your negligence, and yours alone, hopefully the homeless people had a good few nights.

What was worth £600?

JLV handbag?

project – Member
You left your handbag in an unoccupied room, in a place where you knew nobody, and then when it gets nicked you try and claim 600 quid for the loss, it was your negligence, and yours alone, hopefully the homeless people had a good few nights.

It was left in a staff room where we were told to leave it by a member of staff, its not ike we slung it in a corner where anyone could get to it, or that was the impression we got from the member of staff 🙄

Pieface – It was the contents of the handbag that had most of the value, PAYG Mobile Phone, makeup personal effects,,,, I’m not going to post the full list as its not relevant to the original question.

600 quid for a handbag, never heard of matalan, why take something that expensive to a centre for homeless people who dont own anything, have no privacy or family.

How do you know it wasn’t a member of staff that stole it?

Yes you were told it was fine to leave your posessions in this office. Technically he may have been giving you permission to do so, possibly not giving you any assurances that it was safe & secure to do so. (Devils advocate)

Also, maybe it could be said that you did not furnish him with the full facts that you had £600 worth of items in the purse and as such the person was unknowingly ‘duped’ into giving a response which was not in accordance. How about if you had said “Is it safe for us to leave this purse with £600 in it here?” I bet his response would have been “Are you fcin mad!!”

project, you seem to be fixated by the amount which is not the point. The bag was not flash or anything and did not give anything away of what was inside it, infact it was one of my other halfs older handbags. It was the contents that had the value but again that is not the point.

The question is do they (the charity) have a liability? You have made your opinion known so is that your professional legal opinion or just an opinion?

At a guess unless it was in a locked room or cupboard you’re going to struggle whichever route you choose.

If the £600 contents included a PAYG mobile and make-up (as you claim), suppose a normal PAYG mobile is £100: how much does your gf spend on make-up?

only a few years ago the nspcc were discovered to be taking something like 88p+ in every £1 donated for ‘admin’.

Don’t forget that any “admin” figure includes salaries for people that actually know WTF they are talking about. Friend was director of a charity that helped social services/orphanages etc in E Europe reform/restructe. They were able to retain experts in the field on a salary to pursue long-term reforms and projects. Then a few major donors started jumping up and down about high “admin” costs which mean they stopped giving – the charity had to lay off the experts and switch off the long term projects – and now they are stuck with jumping from short-term project to short-term project depending on what’s fashionable in grantwriting this year, and their experts (and their knowledge) has been scattered to the four winds.

Why are people so credulous when it comes to the belief that other people’s jobs are cushy and luxurious? Charity workers, civil servants, teachers, prisoners…

I know it’s crap ( the charity I do work for had a volunteer have a laptop stolen from the place recently; they have funded a replacement, even though this means less money spent on projects), but think of it this way:

When youse went home, you had a home to go to.

konabunny – second what you’ve put in your post. Charities have to function to be able to do the work that they are set up to do. This requires a certain number of staff with expertise, that might not be tied to particular projects – whether it’s termed as ‘admin’ or ‘overhead’ costs isn’t really relevant. A move towards the short-termist view that ‘admin’ costs need to be kept to a minimum and that the charity just has to chase the grantmakers current fad ultimately undermines the ability of the charity to do good quality work over a sustained period.

[/quote]Why are people so credulous when it comes to the belief that other people’s jobs are cushy and luxurious? Charity workers, civil servants, teachers, prisoners…

Grass is always greener?

How much is your no claims bonus worth? 😯

I pay insurance premiums so that I am insured. The idea of avoiding claiming on my insurance just because I could sue a homeless shelter instead doesn’t really appeal to me…

I think the problem is the locked/unlocked room. I had a laptop stolen from a room i had locked but it had been opened by another member of staff. The insurance would not cover it as the room had not been locked BUT there had been a lack of XXXX(duty of care not quite the correct statement) on behalf of my employers.

If they said it was safe then you can assume it’s safe, therefore their liability BUT i’d try you own insurance first and £600!?!

I am a lawyer and I think you have a claim.

The employee (agent) voluntarily assumed responsibility in telling you it would be ok to keep the bag in the room – with the implication that if would be safe (why else would you ask?) – I suspect the terms of this conversation are where the nun of the matter is.

As for the moral side, it’s easier to be self righteous behind a keyboard when you’ve not just lost £600, which you are otherwise effectively donating.

It’s probably not watertight legally so I’d write a lot or raise a claim then accept a lower settlement.

The employee (agent) voluntarily assumed responsibility in telling you it would be ok to keep the bag in the room – with the implication that if would be safe (why else would you ask?) – I suspect the terms of this conversation are where the nun of the matter is.

Agree with this. Does OP have proof they told them it was safe to leave belongings in the room?

IMHO I wouldn’t say the charity has complete liability as I would say that its still the responsibilty of the owner to ensure their belongings were left somewhere safe and do find it strange that you’d leave objects to the value of £600.

“I am a lawyer and I think you have a claim”

But not morally. Suck it up,learn from it and take responsibility for your own stuff in future.

“I am a lawyer and I think you have a claim”

But not morally. Suck it up,learn from it and take responsibility for your own stuff in future.

This.

Don’t think lawyers are qualified to give moral advice really cynic-al. 😛

just lost £600, which you are otherwise effectively donating.

How does that work?

brant – Member

just lost £600, which you are otherwise effectively donating.

How does that work?

In my view he probably has a legal right to claim the £600, and is therefore owed it by the charity. If he doesn’t claim it he’s effectively giving it to them by writing off the debt.

For the moral high-ground inhabitants, would you take a different view if the bag had been left in identical circumstances in someone’s house or in premises belonging to a business? If you had a business that suplied goods ro services, would you write of debts to charities more easily than other businesses?

Same question as brant.

And, al is not going to get away with where the nun of the matter is! 😆

If you claim against them you’re going to cost them a lot more than £600, unless they roll over straight away. In reality I expect they will instruct solicitors to defend the claim, you will have to do the same, and you will walk away with even less money than you started.

£600 is a ridiculously small amount to be pursuing a disputed claim over – in legal terms it’s three or four hours work. After that there is a good chance that you will be operating in the red.

Why don’t you strike a compromise and have the charity send over some homeless bods to cook your xmas dinner this year?

Jamie. You’ve not thought that through. They’d nick everything in his house!

I think there’s a couple of points to the “moral high ground”.

1/ – if I left my manbag in a spare room at my friends’ house I’d not be too worried about it being snaffled by a passing festive crackhead. But if it was I still wouldn’t sue them unless my insurance company made me.

2/ – because of the small matter of the high incidence of crackheads in homeless shelters, it is harder to pin the responsibility for it on them. It’s not like the charity nicked it (they may have done, of course, dunno)

3/ – you aren’t really “donating” something you’ve lost in any meaningful sense. Someone has it, but again, it seems implausible that the shelter’s fundraising officer pinched the bag to sell on ebay to raise funds to help the homeless, it seems altogether more likely that the enterprising homeless nicked it to hjelp themselves.

4/ – the bag is insured and there is no suggestion that the OP’s insurer denies liability. That is the real “nun” of the matter. So rather than “donating” £600 the OP is proposing to screw them for the difference between £600 and the value of his no-claims bonus.

You are no doubt right as a matter of law, but it is the sort of being right that gets the law into disrepute. 🙂

🙂

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cynic-al – Member

Jamie. You’ve not thought that through. They’d nick everything in his house!
Posted 38 minutes ago # Report-Post

…and that is why your the lawyer and I am not Al 😉

Ah. I missed the bit about the OP’s insurance.

It just seems a bit off to me that the Charity can offer someone a safe place to keep their stuff (and therefore assume a duty of care) and then get off scot-free…just because they are a charity…who is incidentally taking a hard-nosed commercial line on things!

And FWIW I take no responsibility for my typing “nun” on my ipod while waking up in the bath!

I am a lawyer and I think you have a claim.

Ooh, I dunno. A mate of mine went into a shop once, had his bike with him, but din’t have a lock. Asked a member of staff if ittud be all right to leave it in a corner, inside. They told him ittud be ok, and that they’d keep an eye on it. Of course, he finishes his shopping, and the bike’s gone. He tried kicking up a stink with the manager, no joy. Took advice from a solicitor, they told him that no firm guarantees had been given, as to the safety of his bike, so he din’t really have a case. Just being told ‘oh yeah, ittul be ok’, is not adequate. There needs to be some firm guarantee given, that the items will be secure. does not in any way sound like there was, in this case, just a vague suggestion that it would be ok. And there was something about the fact that my mate failed to ensure that his bike would indeed be secure; you’d have to have reasonable confidence that the security was indeed adequate, not just rely on a vague statement from a member of staff (they weren’t security officers or managers, and therefore had no authority to assure security of the bike anyway).

Then there’s proving said items were inside the bayg anyway. I mean, I could do the same thing, then claim I left a £20,000 diamond ring in the bayg. Or anything, for that matter. I once was involved in a situation, as a youth worker, where a kid’s bayg had been nicked, and he claimed a brand new pair of Nike trainers, costing £80, were in the bayg. We contacted his parents, prepared to pay for the trainers if they had indeed been nicked, they said he woon’t have had £80 for trainers in the first place. Scamming little bugger.

As horrible as it is, and as priceless as personal items are, they are after all only things. Life can go on without them. Not trying to dismiss the significance of the loss, on a personal level, but worse things happen at sea, you know?

To try and sue the charity over this, would simply cause a lot more fuss than it would be worth. have you considered, that someone could possibly lose their job over this? Or that the charity would have less funds with which to provide much needed resources or facilities?

In the long run, is it really worth it? What will you really gain? The ‘personal’ items are surely irreplaceable anyway, and the other stuff, well, what do you pay insurance for?

I’d put it down to sperience, and walk away. Life’s too short…