2004 Mondeo 2.0 Tdci, diagnosed as having expired fuel injectors, a common problem, I hear.

New replacements will cost as much as the cars worth, but I’m loathed to get rid of it for peanuts. Its done 107000 miles, I think its good for plently more (apart from the fuel injectors, obviously).

If I get some Ebay replacements, (chancing my arm) and assuming they are seviceable, am I in for a world of pain getting them set up? I understand they need programming, possibly?

Cheers.

Yes they will need programming, how many have failed?

Two, Ford told me cylinders 3 and 4 were gone.

Reconditioned ones appear to be about £115 each. Does that work out cheaper than Ford wanted?

Doing some reading up, am I better off getting mine reconditioned?

You need to price up the whole job, especially if the labour is so high that you may as well do all four (which is what we did with my OH’s old Landie).

And sometimes they are a ‘struggle’ to get out.

In an ideal world, the new injectors will need coding to the ecu. This is because in order to precisely control the tiny amounts of fuel injected multiple times during each compression stroke, the injectors are tested and ranked into categories by flow rate.

However, if you just fit these “new” injectors, the car will still run, and in fact, the ecu will attempt to adapt to the new flow rates itself. What you may notice is a rougher idle, and of course, if you had means to measure it, more pollutants out of the tailpipe.

Any garage with the correct scan tool will be able to recode the engine ecu with the new injector codes, but if you want to avoid the small expense, fit em first and try it!

Ford wanted 300 each injector, and would only do all four, which is fair enough I think, and about another 300 to fit! I nearly fell off the chair.
Thanks for the replies, very useful. I think I shall tackle it myself, but try and get reconditioned from somewhere reputable.

Is it important to get the same coded injector?

If you are going to go down the lines of fit them first and try it, make a note of the 16 digit number that is engraved on the side, as that is the number required to code them into the ecu. The injector can not be interogated to get this piece of information. The coding relates to flow rates at several set pressures.

I have never fitted a complete set of injectors only the ones that have failed. The ford injectors are not usually bad to remove, unlike the injectors in renault/vauxhall vans which are always a pig.

Usually purchase these kind of injectors on an exchange basis, not that badly priced compared to some that are out there.

I have just sold a mondeo for spares or repair. 2004 with 110k on it. Injectors one three and four gone. Was told that i may as well replace the four. About 800 for parts and labour. Thats a lot of money to spend on an old car. Why have the injectors failed? Could the pump be braking down blocking injectors. If so that’s another grand. Could the common rail be full of crap from the pump ready to block my lovely new injectors. To risky for me to take a chance. By the way I have to say that when it was running it was the best car I’ve ever had. Unless I get a company car that’s me and diesel finished. Got an 04 Octavia vrs 38mpg on a run and so far reliable.

Get the filter cut open and check for any debris on the return side of the filter. Hope you get it running again. Miss mine every day for biking purposes. What can you get that compares these days.

You can, I believe, DIY code mk3 injectors with the F-Super software. I’ve not done it- I’ve only used it for fault codes etc- but that might give you some useful starting points for finding things out.

(also, it can read out most of the sensors live onto your laptop as it sits in the passenger seat, which is some wicked Fast and Furious shit. NOSSSSSSSS)

I was told by a mate who worked for Jaguar as a mechanic that the refurbed ones were a bit hit or miss so they only ever fitted new Delphi ones. Same engine in jag as mondy. Every garage I went to advised to get shot before it failed altogether but I held on too long till the point where turning a corner would load the engine with the power steering and it would go into limp mode.

F Super will recode the injectors in the ECU. 2nd hand injectors is very risky. If you are going that route then at least get them out of an insurance write off rather than take risk that you aren’t buying someone else’s knackered injectors who is trying to recoup his own repair bill.
I would take it a diesel specialist rather than Ford. What were your problems that led to the garage?

New replacements will cost as much as the cars worth

Market value isn’t the same as the actual value of the car. If you sold it and bought another, its injectors could also fail at any moment… If you fix the old one it’ll almost certainly work out cheaper unless it has some drastic underlying flaw like serious rust.

Poor starting, hunting, cut out a few times under load. I was going to take the salvage yard route for lower milage parts, but the one near me, Aldershot Car Spares, has stopped selling parts to public, sadly. I havent researched other scrap yards tbh.

Still cant decide the best route to take, part of me says cut my losses and trade it in.

molegrips, my thinking exactly – the rest of the car isnt in bad shape, thats whats making me want to keep it running – and the fact I recently spent a few hundred quid on tyres. 😥

Dial a Part or Find a Part used to be good , although with common faults you might end up buying duffers and paying to get them coded.

I was told by a mate that his brother took out his injectors , got them cleaned with ultrasound and put them back in , telling the ECU they were new and did thousands of miles more without a problem. Could be balls , could be true . He came up with the idea that they were almost designed to fail at a point to guarentee Ford lots of work changing them in the cars future.

Blisterman , from what you have described fault wise sounds very much like a fuel filter problem . We get this quite a bit at work (FORD dealership) Have you replaced it ??

Pitcherpro, no, I don’t know when it was last done, I’ve had the car since about 80000 miles.

Its worth a go, I guess.

Poor starting isn’t always injectors as others gave found out after having theirs changed. For the cost of it change the fuel filter, these supposed to be done every 36k miles iirc. Use a Ford filter, more expensive but again others have problems with pattern versions not flowing enough. Also change the glow plugs which have cured some starting problems.
If you are going to pod the injectors have a search on eBay for mondeoman who specialises in breaking them.

One thing, my mechanic thought it could be the failing fuel pump(s) that caused the injectors to fail on my OH’s car.

Get a new filter delphi or bosch. Cut the old one open on the return side and check for brass debris. If it’s clear then hopefully it’s not the pump. Get a leak off test done and make sure your present when they do it. You’ll understand why. It’s so easy for a garage to fudge a test and get you replacing all four. I paid 50 quid to get one done just to make sure and only no 2 injector was clear. Very common for this age of car with this injection system. How many early common rail tdci’s do you see on the road, not many. The earlier TDDI was apparently the one to go for. I feel your pain cos when they are running they are a joy. No dpf to worry about, cam chain engine and a million times better to drive than a Passat. VW injectors are 700 quid but they rarely go wrong unless they are the new piezio ones. Still having problems with those ones. It’s not the glow plugs you’ll only waste more money.

The fuel filters are notorious for restricting flow when the get shitty , causes low fuel flow which results in excessive cranking , surging on cruise / light throttle and cutting out when hoofing it . I would certainly look at replacing it , you will need a hand primer to change it.

When I change my fuel filter I fill it using a small kitchen funnel before fitting it. Starts first time every time.

We only use the primer as its a special tool and nice and quick 🙂

Brass debris as a sign of a knackered pump? Bronze maybe but only if it’s a shagged journal bearing, more likely to be bog standard chromoly or carburised steel if the pump cam or follower are on their way out. Worth bearing in mind that the valve seats on the injector needles do wear through life, which is why the ecu can make some adaptations, but that means the flow through a reconditioned injector won’t necessarily match what it was coded to from the factory.

Priming filters is where the modern VAG cars win, diagnostic box, special functions, select prime, pump goes buzz, solenoids go click, and bingo job done. Some mondeo’s have a hideous fuel filter near the rear axle, it’s not the nicest to change, and it’s a bit of a pig to prime, as you can’t prefill it.

VW injectors are 700 quid but they rarely go wrong unless they are the new piezio ones. Still having problems with those ones

Which ones? The notorious ones I read about were the ones from the 2.0 tdo PD engine the noisy one that went from 2006 t o 2008 on Passats (not sure about other models). And then only ones made by Siemens. They eventually issued a recall so I got a nice new set for free at 80k miles.

Or are you aware of problems with the CR engines post 2008?

When I change my fuel filter I fill it using a small kitchen funnel before fitting it. Starts first time every time.

I did that on mine. Worked fine.

The old Mondeo forum used to be very good. Lots of info on there re: injectors. I think it’s called talkford these days.
52′ plate here, on 167k.
Threw a wobbly a year or two back, & went in to limp mode. A re-code sorted it out.
Still a lovely car to drive.

Still having prob’s with injectors so I hear. Maybe its just the Siemens ones and they haven’t got round to changing them all yet. Time will tell. Lad at work had a 1.9 GTTDI. One injector for that was 700 quid. I think it was one of the cam driven ones.

One injector is sitting in a puddle of diesel – is that indicitive of any more than a bit of a leak somewhere?

Its usually the high pressure pipe

Inbred, the cam ones were last seen in 2008 at least on Passats not sure about Golfs.

Inbred, the cam ones were last seen in 2008 at least on Passats not sure about Golfs.

One injector is sitting in a puddle of diesel – is that indicitive of any more than a bit of a leak somewhere?

Clean it all up, then start it and watch, it’s not unusual for the leak offs to develop cracks, either in the joins or the hose.

Sometimes you can get a slight nip on the supply pipe to the injector but it’s probably the return pipe to the filter, they can enbrittle with age and leak a bit. Molegrips who is making the injectors for VW now. Did they switch over to Bosch. I love the way diesels drive and would love to think that there is a higher mileage diesel out there that is reliable for a used car, circa 3 to 4 yrs old. What type of DPF are VW using these days. According to Honest John Nissan/Renault have the DPF problem licked on the new 1.6dci’s. Moving it really close to the cylinder head to enable the DPF to run at much higher temperatures thus extending it’s efficiency and lifespan considerably.

ITS ALIVE!

Took the injectors out myself and got them reconditioned here: http://www.psdfi.co.uk/ – £150 each.

Just fitted them back in this afternoon, replaced the fuel filter, and it started after just a few turns of the engine. Seems to be running pretty nicely so far. Engine warning light stayed on for a few miles, then sorted itself out and went off.

Thanks for all the advice and comments. Saved quite a few quid taking it on myself.