Behave you lot! Its a difference of opinion (from both sides) thats allowed. No one offended someones family honour (child).

FFS, are you lot Sicilian today? 🙄

Ahem, if I may just intervene (on my own **** post) between those in the blue corner and those in the red corner …

… Got a very good deal on a mint 07 Focus (Zetec + climate pack) with only 25000 miles this afternoon. Missus is happy, which is important seeing as it's "essentially" going to be her car.

Also had a good time at ante-natal class today – all in all: happy days 😀

MF – you have just crossed a line with that last post, a line that you have to be pretty messed up to cross. What is it with you? Let's face it, you're a geek that thinks he's made it and bang on and on about money. We don't care and the fact some have a much nicer car than you clearly grates your nerdy self worth. I seriously advise
you never to make such insulting statements about how we bring up our boy again. After all, your poor offspring have to try and fit in daddys pretend sports car rather than a proper vehicle. So nicely hypocritical too.

Get a grip Matt – I have always got on with you on here but I was telling it like I see it on this occasion. Ohh and I don't bang on about money and my kids never travel in my car, we use my wife's.

Ooh, this got ugly over the weekend!

yeeesss…

I'm appalled at you MF – did you study research into car seats? Did you find out that rear facing 2nd seats (over 1 year) are 5 times safer than front facing ones? Have you got rear facing seats for yours? Did you import one from overseas because they don't sell them here yet? Did you speak to loads of researchers? Did you wonder why they aren't sold (properly) in the UK yet?

A £1000 buggy is NO safer than a £200 one – they all comply with the same safety/quality standards unlike car seats. You are spending money on a label with no benefit to the kid(s). We spend money where it matters – on stuff you can't show off in the local park or high street.

Your accusation is utterly f**ked up. Having lost a little one at 37.5 weeks (true knot tightened in his cord as he grew and that was it) you'd struggle to find a more protective/safety minded parent so do NOT suggest anything like you did above again.

As for getting on – yes we did but the sort of post you made makes me seriously doubt whether you are worth talking to.

Hey – might sound crazy but you could do a thing called apologise – because I seriously doubt you meant what you posted. If you did, then there's no help for you.

Civic is excellent (I'm very happy with mine) but it's only recently they've offered a "proper" auto – before it was Honda's much-derided i-Shift.

Not sure I'd want to run a DSG Golf out of warranty – lots of potential for expensive problems.

Of the Astra and Focus in auto forms, I'd take the Astra any day.

Mat – I apologise if I offended you. I don't apologise for what I said – I stand by it 100%.

The reason I kicked out at you was your continued posts on that other thread about people buying buggies just to show off their wealth which was (IMO) utter nonsense – every person who buys a buggy has their own reasons yet you insisted they were just buying them (Bugaboos in particular IIRC) simply to impress people and not because they have any kind of benefit to them, their child, their circumstances etc etc etc. And this coming from the person who is so proud of his car seemed somewhat like double-standards – just consider that other people may have gone through as much in the way of research as you clearly have done but simply come to another conclusion.

And I am genuinely sorry to hear you have lost a child – no-one deserves that.

you insisted they were just buying them (Bugaboos in particular IIRC) simply to impress people

Yeah, Mat does have a tendency to be dismissive of other people that way which is a little annoying. Since according to him I'd be some kind of image obsessed poseur which is about as far wrong as you can be!

Likewise MF, you do have a tendency to be insensitive (which you appear to acknowledge).

I am not whiter than white – I totally agree!

I was just trying (somewhat insensitively it appears) to illustrate that Matt was being very unfair in his blanket accusation that people buy expensive pushchairs just to impress people (especially when he has such an expensive car which, it could be argued, is a similar trinket to show one's wealth).

Ahh well, best move on.

You lot are like a dog with a bloody bone sometimes.

I know sorry.

We'll leave it at that Matt shall we? Just stick to discussing the merits of whatever sexy car we care to discuss… 🙂

Just stick to discussing the merits of whatever sexy car we care to discuss…

As long as we all agree that a BMW 330d is the absolute best car ever 😉

LOL! Don't Molgrips.

MF – last word. Our "expensive" cars (yours is hardly low rent) have benefits – faster, better handling, nicer interiors, more reliable, more kit, often safer – than cheaper cars.

An expensive buggy/travel system doesn't "go faster" or "handle better" than a cheaper one. In fact we looked at and nearly bought a pretty top end one – bloody glad we didn't as there have been massive numbers of recalls and complaints about it (no it's not Bugaboo) – we also looked at Bugaboo – they just didn't do what our "cheap" system does – cot/buggy/integral car seat/three wheeler. So it wasn't actually cost cutting, it was a case of less is more – it also scores better in most reviews. Same with a lot of kiddy kit from designer clothes (utterly wrong IMO) to cots, highchairs to baby monitors. As you know from our stunningly flashy car (!) we can afford "the best" if needed but looking into it often reveals "the best" is often pretty low cost. Which leaves the most expensive stuff lacking in benefits apart from image. If spending more means safer, I'm first in the queue.

Anyway apology accepted – it was a terrible time (Nov 2007) but the little one we have goes 95% of the way to making it better.

330d is cr4p. Only the 335d is worth having…

Oh and it's utterly dismal "off road" – a grassy car park? Avoid. A snowflake falls – leave it at home. It's also small for it's class and comes with the most stupid tyres (runflats) ever – I replaced them pronto. Oh and everyone hates you when you drive one.

So not "the best" just rather good and not really much that compares to it (RS4 does under 20mpg, M5 Touring does about 10mpg, Mercs diesels aren't very powerful, same with Audis, etc).

Mat that was meant to be a joke re the car!

But Matt you totally misunderstand the point at what I have been trying to say!

I know a buggy doesn't go faster than the next one (but some do handle much better than others – I can vouch for that from personal experience). The point is that people have different reasons for buying the buggies to the reasons you had – it doesn't make them wrong. Some people need one that will fold easily, or is lightweight, or will fit in their car, or takes a particular kind of seat, or has a large shopping basket, or will lift onto a bus easily, or will fit easily in supermarket aisles. You can't choose a buggy using the same criteria as choosing a car, but you have to appreciate that some people will have come to different conclusions than you did for their own reasons – in some cases they may have simply liked the way a Bugaboo looks, but if that is an important criteria to them, then you can't argue with it.

And whilst we are airing views – I did take exception to your claim that I 'bang on about money' but you will find that is not the case at all – not once have I ever spoken about how well off I may (or may not) be. Yes I DO bang on about my car but that is only because I love it – and it was bought (on lease) at a time business was doing well. When it comes up for renewal I will be getting something more sensible and family-friendly.

Mol – I know. My reply was meant to be in the same vein 😉

MF – like I don't spot stuff that annoys people, you do similar. Honestly you often allude to (having plenty of) money – why do you think people have taken the pi55 out of you about it in the past?

Back to cars – I thought you were eyeing up 335ds too? Would be ideal for your needs 😉

Yes I have said I would like one – it will all depend on what deals are around next autumn and how business is going.

100!

286bhp, 428lbs-ft, now 178g/km, over 40mpg, room for the little ones and shopping.

Splendid.

You'd be better off with the 320 ed I think.

Or the environment would, for sure 🙂

320d ED – 165bhp, 280ish lbs-ft, 109g/km, about 60mpg – amazing IMO!

330 diesel? Sucks teeth…….could be costly if that turbo goes.

330 petrol? Yes please 😀

109g/km, about 60mpg

IF that's realistic, and it's a big IF.

I'm impressed with a Passat estate that can do 65mpg real-world.

could be costly if that turbo goes.

Meh. Expensive car in money cost shocker. Are you saying petrol cars can't have failures too? Plus, I'd wager that the money you'd save on fuel would more than pay for any possible turbo problems.

330 diesel? Sucks teeth…….could be costly if that turbo goes.

330 petrol? Yes please

Except the turbos don't go on the six cylinder diesels – just the four pot ones (and that was the older model).

The 330d is about the best compromise of power and economy available. It's just a bit gayer than the 335d…

330i is nice but a bit torqueless – 335i more fun.

Mol – tests suggest that the mpg of that 320d is very impressive even if BMW do tend to BS a bit about mpg figures.

Got any links?

I always wondered why larger engined diesels weren't as economical as smaller engined ones. After all, when travelling at the same speed, they should be injecting the same amount of fuel regardless (unlike petrol). The larger displacement would be just air unless you use it for burning fuel.

Having said that, I guess the work required to compress all that air is where the wastage comes in…

I reckon a 320ed would be the best compromise of power and economy. If 8.4 secs isn't enough then you're a nobber.

God, is that how boring and nerdy we sound when we talk about bikes with non-cyclists around? 😉

I'm a nobber then 😆

But we all know that…

I had a very close shave today, someone flying round a blind corner on my side of the road overtaking something on double whites.

Power is a mug's game, kids

You can do that sort of silly driving in any car. In fact if anything, it's angry reps in 2.0TDIs that are more likely to drive like that than "proper" drivers with a bit of poke under the bonnet.

Evidence or is that going to be another TJ style assertion that it's ok for 'proper' motorbikers to ride however they like because they're safe.

(yes, TJ, I know that's a simplification…)

it's angry reps in 2.0TDIs that are more likely to drive like that than "proper" drivers with a bit of poke under the bonnet.

That's the kind of statement that annoys people Mat!

Power tempts lots of people to do stupid things. But we've been over this before. A powerful car is a plaything, public roads are not playgrounds – absolutely end of.

And I know you simply cannot bear to let someone else have the last word, so I can guarantee that you'll not be able to keep your fingers off and you'll post again arguing 🙂

Last time I saw a tw*t behaving like, well, a tw*t, it was in a knackered old Ford Escort – turning left off a roundabout on a residential street near where we live – the turn is followed quickly by a sharp-ish right bend with a speed hump. He took the exit so quickly that he started to drift the car, hit the speedbump and started to lose control which pushed the back end out as he tried to negotiate the bend. Had we been there about a minute earlier I really would have feared for our girls in the pushchair. As it was he *just* managed to control it as he clipped a kerb.

Then drove off laughing (probably in embarrassment TBF)

Last time I saw a tw@ behaving like a tw@ was a bloke in an MX5 bombing down a country road towards me, slightly lost the back end so it swung out well over the centre line and forced me almost off the (other) side of the road to avoid him…

Not sure what that proves, mind 😉

I didn't clock what the car was this morning – didn't have time! I was too busy spotting my escape route between the verge and him.

Well all cars have power or they wouldn't get very far and sales would probably be limited.

Two scenarios – a rep in his 2.0TDI Audi is late for an appointment and stuck behind a lorry on a sweeping A road. He gets increasingly irate, see a small gap and goes for it. He's exposed to oncoming traffic for 8 seconds (250 metres) and should there be a problem, his stopping distance at 70mph is 96 metres.

A company owner is on the road in his (insert quick car name) and is stuck behind a lorry. It's not a big problem but a small gap appears. He goes for it. He's exposed to oncoming traffic for 5 seconds (179 metres) and should there be a problem, his extra powerful brakes will stop him from 80 in 75 metres.

Who is the safest?

He gets increasingly irate

That's your issue. If that starts happening, you've lost.

I used to drive a 1.0 Polo. Rather than hanging myself out on the other side of the road for ages, I MTFUed and didn't bother.

You overtake when there's room to overtake for your car. A person in a faster car could do MORE overtaking manoevres and take shorter gaps. So ultimately the safety margin is the same.

In fact no, because the faster car driver will carry out MORE manoevres at higher speeds, thereby resulting in more time spent flying about on the wrong side of the road at 80-90mph.

To quote just one example of many, the car pulling out of a junction on the other side of the road is less likely to see you in time if you are going very fast (speaking from experience). Sure you've got better brakes but the driver's reaction time is the same.

So to summarise, a faster car enables more overtaking at higher speeds with the same reaction times, and less anticipation from everyone else on the road. I don't think that's safer.

PS stop adding unnecessary details to your examples to try and pre-dispose us to sneer at the scenario you want to fail the comparison. You can SO tell you're in PR.. the truth is not important to a spin doctor eh? 🙂

Anyone that overtakes past a junction deserves to crash.

Overtaking rules:

Clear view ahead with NO hazards.
Sufficient gap + big safety margin.
Safe road conditions (not wet/icey/etc).
Check behind you.
Don't accelerate until you are in the opposite lane.
Leave sufficient gap before you pull back in.

You seem to be convinced that anyone in a quick car has zero self control and barrels along at top speed all the time. He/she doesn't.

How many crashes have you had small or large? How many points do you have on your license?

Don't forget that our other car is INCREDIBLY slow – so I do know the difference in driving that and a nippy machine. We all feel safer in the faster car.

Anyone that overtakes past a junction deserves to crash.

What about concealed exits that you can't see?

Your overtaking rules are fine. Note that power or speed are not mentioned in there. Those apply whatever you are driving.

I've never had any crash of any kind, unless you count touching the car in front the other day in a queue, and I've never had any points and only one parking ticket.

And I wouldn't feel safe in an old Suzuki Jimny at any speed. Why not compare like with like – say, a Passat 1.9 TDI 105ps and 2.0 TDI 170ps.