Celeb lawyer Mr ArseLoophole would appear to be suggesting everyone should be wearing hiviz (as opposed to drivers being brought to account for speeding, texting and driving into people) He has previous in victim blaming too

Did a forum search couldn’t find anything.
So anything to discuss? or is this just shyster lawyer acts like shyster lawyer?

..or paint all road vehicles in flourescent yellow paint with reflective stripes?

IIRC there is caselaw stating cyclists are not under a duty to wear bright clothing (despite the HC, which is often argued to be “close to law”, esp by cyclists!)

EDIT and isn’t there a study showing more lives would be saved if all motorists wore helmets rather than cyclists?

IIRC there is caselaw stating cyclists are not under a duty to wear bright clothing

so it’s defence team straw grasping?

<edit>although in this case (don’t know all the facts but MEN says, texting prior to incident, 42in a 30, 8month suspended jail sentence 2 yr ban) it may have helped keep the driver out of prison.

The time has now come for the government to require pedestrians to effectively light up at night.

IMO the time has now come for the government to require Nick Freeman to wear a giant penis hat.

Obviously once this law is enacted we’ll need another law to make sure any wildlife that might stray onto the road also wears high viz.

And of course all vehicles will be painted high viz, as will roadside signposts, streetlamps, walls, hedges….

Alternatively we could draw up some kind of law requiring people to look where they are going.

does mr soulless arsehole loophole wear high viz whilst on his way to the courtroom? double standards obviously! hopefully karma will see him off

I would love to see a hi-viz rabbi outfit, that would be something !!!

He actually trademarked the Mr Loophole nickname! What a t***! Should be struck off for making bringing the law into disrepute, the odeous little cretin.

edit – and irrespective of any other punishment the killer should have recieved, anyone pleading or being found guilty of death by dangerous driving should have their licence revoked permanently. 15 months FFS!

Interesting that its a “Causing Death By Careless Driving” not “Causing Death By Dangerous Driving”driving”.

Maximum sentence of 5 years rather than 14… See.

Hence the guilty plea. CPS are too timid to push for a proper fitting charge or sentence with RTIs, lack of any meaningful consequences basically means there’s little point in having traffic laws…
Texting and Speeding only constitutes “Careless driving” eh? I suppose he could have been jugging flaming chainsaws and swgging Gin as well… And I’m sure the victim being an Invisible Rabbi was taken as mitigation…

Martins, of Fairhaven Avenue, Whitefield, was jailed for eight months, suspended for two years, with a 15-month ban and 300 hours of unpaid work. Mr Leech has written to Mr Grayling to call for a review of the sentence.

He said: “I personally feel that the sentence given to Mr Martins is too lenient, sets a dangerous precedent and needs to be reviewed.”

Suspended sentence and a 15 month ban?? FFS!!
I’m not sure “lenient” quite covers it, any less punitive and they’d be giving him a medal…

Interesting that its a “Causing Death By Careless Driving” not “Causing Death By Dangerous Driving”driving”.

I was being distracted by my moderate rageathon to note the difference. That makes it even worse

Mr Arsehole should have gone to jail for a decent stretch too.

Interesting that its a “Causing Death By Careless Driving” not “Causing Death By Dangerous Driving”driving”.

That’s very typical in these cases. Careless is far easier to prove.

The Cycling Silk puts it well: “Conduct which might be regarded as dangerous in any other walk of life is, in a motorist, merely careless and that which would otherwise be careless is excusable. This tenet is coloured by a sense of ‘There but for the grace of God, go I’ in the mind of the individual scrutinising the conduct in question.”

any less punitive and they’d be giving him a medal…

If the Rabbi had been on a bike then they probably would have.

The rather galling thing is that the comments were made after the case not during it.

It’s pretty much no holds barred during the hearing, which is understandable, but I can see only two reasons to make this statement after sentencing- either he genuinely believes this (unlikely) or he’s courting publicity again, this time after someone’s death.
Presumably he no longer has any need of a professional relationship with his client, so to still attempt to transfer blame to the deceased makes him a complete c.unt in my mind.

Its when they plead guilty to something you’ve got to watch it, and look at what they are actually pleading guilty to.

Sly git, nobody really fights it as everyone comes out as a “Winner” apart from the victim and their family, CPS get a “conviction” to massage the stats and don’t have to spend much time chasing it, Driver dodges prison, Mr Loophole gets his mug in the papers…

Not that I’m a cynic…

from the CTC today –

As part of our Road Justice campaign, on Friday 13 June, CTC is holding an expert panel debate on sentencing for driving offences.

CTC believes that sentences for driving offences need to be tougher and more appropriate, to reinforce the message that bad driving is unacceptable, to raise driving standards, and to get bad drivers off the road– for the benefit of everyone.

Our Sentencing Debate will examine the legal issues relevant to sentencing and look to influence the review of sentencing guidelines for serious driving offences.

We want no more cases like these:

driver sentenced to 240 hours of unpaid work and a one-year ban for killing a cyclist whilst eating a sandwich at the wheel driving at 55mph;

driver given six-month suspended sentence, a one-year ban and ordered to do 200 hours of unpaid work for killing a cyclist he would have had had 11 seconds to see before he hit him at high speed.

Our panel of legal experts will be taking questions from legal professionals, campaigners, crash victims and also from you. Send us your questions by Twitter using the hashtag #CTCdebate or email CTC campaigner, RhiaWeston rhia.weston at ctc.org.uk, prior to the event.

You can participate in the debate live on our website from 9am to 11am on 13 June and also participate via Twitter. We also have limited spaces available to watch the debate via online live streaming. To reserve a place, please send an email request to Jacqui Shannon.

Regards,

Rhia Weston,
Road Justice Coordinator

http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/ctc-to-hold-expert-panel-debate-on-sentences-for-driving-offences
http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/cameron-confirms-sentencing-guidelines-review-for-dangerous-driving-offences

I hope that all of us outraged by this kind of thing are actively supporting the CTCs Road Justice campaign? Needs lots of positive action if anything is to come of it, not just a lot of forum talk, I’m afraid.

Reminds me of the young bloke who ran over and killed a college student at traffic lights in Huddersfield- fled the scene and almost got away with it….

until months later he tried to make a false insurance claim on the damage to his car.

Only he knows but it’d be impossible to run someone over where he did unless he was also ‘distracted’ by his phone.

Whilst recognising his statement is intended to get a load of forums chattering about the now infamaous Mr Loophole.

This type of statement and the Helmet/Hi Viz evangelists just serve to reinforce the view that “outside” is in some way a dangerous place best avoided by sane people and only to be negotiated with special equipment.

Everyone should spend the day walking in to Nick Freeman, knocking him over….

“Whoops, sorry, didn’t see you there! Have you thought of wearing High-Viz?”

This type of statement and the Helmet/Hi Viz evangelists just serve to reinforce the view that “outside” is in some way a dangerous place best avoided by sane people and only to be negotiated with special equipment.

The road, in its current format is a dangerous place. On my ride last night, two cars tried their best to knock me off by over taking in stupid places and pulling back in too early. However, Hi viz would not have prevented that from happening.

I wonder you know ,just on the off chance if anyone on here knows of someone who got knocked off their bike while wearing hi viz. Long shot I know and its probably never happened…
I once saw a driver go the wrong way up a one way street. There was a copper on a horse at the entrance.
If a driver can miss that no one is safe.

If you see him quietly, politely with a smile ‘your abit of a bell end arent you’? No need need to answer, run along’.

anyone on here knows of someone who got knocked off their bike while wearing hi viz.

tried wearing a hiviz vest, freebie from work, and it didn’t make any discernible difference, still got near misses and it was sweaty and badly cut so I sacked it off. I wasn’t hit whilst wearing it, got knocked off last winter at night, no hiviz but did have reflective trim on my clothes, snap wraps and lights (4 of them) – if drivers don’t look where they’re going it doesn’t matter what you wear.

You do realise that Mr Loophole is like the daily mail and you are all playing into his hands? He has no unique superpower over any other lawyer who, paid enough money could try the same arguments and level of detail, but his “value” is in his reputation for getting people off (or off lighter) in the most adverse looking circumstances – what does he need to raise his profile in the internet era? High page rankings with his name in it. How do you get high rankings – lots of inbound links and discussion! You are all helping Nick Freeman promote himself!

FWIW I work on a site where most people wear hi-viz when walking or cycling around site. You still get near-misses though. When everyone wears hi-viz it becomes normal and is no longer eyecatching.

I deliberately bought an orange jacket to try and stand out from the masses of yellow ones here.

When everyone wears hi-viz it becomes normal and is no longer eyecatching.

+1

sundayjumper: there was a photo-article in the Guardian a few years ago that came to the same conclusion that we’ve become so accustomed to workers wearing hi-viz clothing that they’ve become invisible.

Everyone should spend the day walking in to Nick Freeman, knocking him over….

“Whoops, sorry, didn’t see you there! Have you thought of wearing High-Viz?”

I think we should organise this

It would be a fun day out.

Hi-viz yellow isn’t highly visible on a sunny day when there’s a lot of that yellow rapeseed crop, dandelions and spring greenery about.. still see loads of riders in hi-viz tops then. Black would probably stand out more.

Black would probably stand out more.

until you went under the shade on a treelined road then ZOMG you’d be an idiot with a deathwish!!!!11!

you can’t win.

I bought a flo-orange ALtura night vision top for last winter [ mainly as it matched my new orange bike!] I feel as though I’ve had more close passes and near misses than when I was wearing a non hi viz top. Purely anecdotal mind.

One guy pulled out from a side street when I was coming down a hill & had to overtake him or plow into the back, he got quite a shock when I flew past him. Bright day, good weather comditions just the classic looked but didn’t ‘see’ .

When he caught up at the next junction, he did apologise & gave me SMIDSY, I said I was bright/visible enough, was greeted by a shrug!

@D0nk: Exactly. I was driving to work the other day and there was a council litter picker/hedge groomer at the side of the country road I was on. He was standing against some bushes with bright sunlight shining on him. His green hiviz jacket blended in perfectly with the greenery behind him. His black trousers stood out and made him more noticable.

I guess that’s why you can get vests/jackets that are part orange and part yellow.

One guy pulled out from a side street when I was coming down a hill & had to overtake him or plow into the back, he got quite a shock when I flew past him.

On the odd oaccasion that happens to me, I like to give the car a solid thump with my hand on the driver’s window as I pass. It doesn’t half give them a fright 🙂

Hi viz wont stop accidents. paying attention to your driving and surroundings will.

When i was 16 i got knocked over and lost most of my right leg by a driver who was speeding and not paying attention. they got 3 points and a £60 fine for driving without due care and attention. would hi viz have stopped it? unlikely it was daytime and i happened to be standing on the sodding pavment.

What actually will deter dreivers fomr frankly reckeles endangerment ove every other poor road user and pedestrian is better policing and real punishment (I daresay that policing pedestrians and cyclists as well as motorists would help)
A fine a few points and the though that they have been cleared of their sins is all the balm some need to clear their concience of guilt.

I wonder you know ,just on the off chance if anyone on here knows of someone who got knocked off their bike while wearing hi viz

yes, me, just a couple of weeks ago 🙁