Long story which I’ll try to shorten…looking for some advice (but am inevitably on the way to Citizens Advice – value your advice if possible though?).

I had an interview in London on 29th October for a job covering Scotland (I live in Scotland), Northern Ireland etc – Business Development/Territory Sales, that kind of thing. I got the job and as I had done the job previously for one of their competitors it seemed like an easy “interview”. I started Monday 2nd November. Boss was on holiday, the other Director was on holiday until 4th November so I couldn’t get email addresses, access to system etc. Regardless, I just did tons of research so I was ready to go later in the week. Received an email address late Wednesday so I could do my work. Asked for business cards but drew a blank, no biggie: I just printed out their company brochures and wrote my name and details on them for visiting prospective clients.

Chased employment contract a few times, and received an email telling me off because apparently I shouldn’t have asked HR for this. Replied to say I was sorry but don’t know inner workings yet and as I had been promised one before I started, I didn’t think this was a problem. I received an offer letter on 16th November through the recruiter who got me the job, I responded that I was happy with it etc.

Okay, short story was the goal…. I was meant to have been paid on 25th November for expenses and wages. Received neither. Asked if everything okay with my bank details and P45 etc., which I had sent in, received no reply. Chased them throughout this week, they keep saying to speak to the MD, unfortunately I cannot get hold of him – they say he’ll get back to me. My colleague, who’s now possibly my boss (he doesn’t know) asked me on Friday 27th November if I wanted to go self-employed, commission only. I had said I’m not completely against it but having had offer letter etc. and supposedly been employed for the last month, it might have been a better conversation in October rather than now? No response to that as yet… He’s stuck in the middle anyhow and is obviously realising that this job is maybe not that great either!

As far as I can see, I need to lodge some sort of complaint to go to tribunal and get my month’s wages and expenses. I cannot see another solution ( I don’t think I still have the job!!!). Can anyone give me an idea of how to proceed? (I realise that this is a bike forum but I have seen such requests on here before and have seen a fantastic diversity of skills and specialisms on here.

so you started work before you had a contract? 😯

Yes, ludicrous. I have been in recruitment prior to this and would always tell everyone that they have to receive a contract first. I know I’m wrong but at the same time, what am I meant to do? I asked for this repeatedly and received an offer letter. I had also sent in my P45 and they asked me to fill out a New Starter Form, so while I don’t know the law as maybe I should, I thought that these would prove something at least?!

I don’t think I’m alone, not that that is excusable. My colleague who started a few weeks before me, has been paid but has not received a contract of employment either.

This is more like it. This is a “crazy work situation”. Sorry not much more to add other than 😯

I’ve been in my job 6.5 yrs and have no contract!

+1

Get that recruiter, new company and all evidence you can.
Get solicitor on it now.

Nickjb – glad you appreciate that this is crazy. I’m actually more laughing than concerned (which is weird because I do have bikes (!), house, wife and children to pay for).

Muffin-man – understood – it’s not completely abnormal but obviously not perfect – the fact I have received what I have so far shows I am in employment…!

Thanks Matt – I have printed out everything pertaining to this and am on the way to CAB in an hour or so. I want to send them a warning shot across the bows to try to get this resolved beforehand but I cannot appear to come up with anything – simply because I’m worried that my lack of legal speak and knowledge may somehow get me in trouble!

Not that unusual to start work without a contract ime.

If you have started work, and they’ve allowed yo to start work, and there is other paperwork detailing the terms of that arrangement (i.e. what you will do for them and what they will pay you in return for that) then there is a “deemed contract” – on the basis that you have accepted the terms by way of doing the stuff, and they have also accepted it by having you go in and do the stuff..

However, IANAL and this seems like a situaiton where you are likely to need one.

And I agree that THIS is a crazy work situation…

should have added “good luck in sorting it out”. I’ve been in similar situations with very casual work in the past but not with anything I’d regard as a real job.

Thank you – a “deemed contract” is good enough for me. I just want to be paid my expenses and wages for the last month and walk away. I’ll hand them all the work I have developed for them so hopefully amicably too. Beside the fact I don’t know what I have done wrong, I would be happy with this! From what I’ve heard, it seems as though they have extended themselves too far by bringing on too many people too quickly and they have financial woes. Not my concern but it actually REALLY is too!!

crikey and I thought my wife was having problems with her last employers. All the best in sorting it out NS.

Have you actually spoken to the Boss, before weighing in with legals’ etc?

They could just be a bit disorganised.

Can’t get hold of him – emailed tons, called but keep getting told he will get back to me. Believe me, I want a simple situation and not have to take this to the next level. Good point though! I’m infuriated because of how many emails and calls I have made but have been ignored.

In England and Wales it’s a legal obligation to have some sort of written contract. Not sure if the same in Scotland.

Also no idea if the idea of quantum meruit (getting paid for the work you’ve done) applies in Scottish law either.

It looks pretty black and white but actually getting them to do anything about it seems pretty unlikely given how shambolic they seem. Good luck!

“Beside the fact I don’t know what I have done wrong, I would be happy with this!”

Souns like the last scene in Burn after Reading

The “boss” emailed me at 1657 on Friday to tell me that he will pay me late Monday (today…) and he hasn’t seen my expenses (odd but I sent them straight through to him after his email. So we’ll see. Never had a situation like it and now it’s just comical. I’ll laugh a wee bit more once I have some money in my account of course. Thanks for your help.

I’d get the cash owed then move on. Why would it get any better or more organised? If they’re that disorganised, imagine how it’ll be if you have a problem when you’re properly committed?

Yep, I’d be looking for another job when the money doesn’t arrive with the contract, guess what your expenses are probably not what they reinburse – all in the contract of course

I would be hunting new job as well.

I received an offer letter on 16th November through the recruiter who got me the job, I responded that I was happy with it etc

Do you mean an in house recruiter or a recruitment consultant? If the later, I would speak to them as they have a (financial) incentive to get you employed in that, or another job.

Don’t worry – only goal is to get what I am owed. Would rather be a “man with van” for a while or whatever I need to do to pay the mortgage.

Guess what though….They never paid up. Now that shocked me to the core!

The recruitment consultant was external – so yes, he would benefit from this (or not in this case). I suspect that is another part of the problem. I informed him last week when he called but didn’t want him going after him like a bull in a china shop. Obviously I just said that I would love to keep working, I’m just looking for my first pay and expenses.

I fear this is about to get ever more farcical (but hopefully more entertaining for STW folk!

Ourmaninthenorth – mostly employment law is the same in scotland and England. He should have a written statement of particulars (not quite the same as a contract, and at a stretch the offer letter might tick that box) within two months of starting.

The MD’s behaviour is exactly what I have experienced before from a company that was struggling to stay afloat. He will have numerous creditors after him, probably including HMRC and a selection of suppliers and will only be able to pay those with the biggest clout. Unfortunately, this probably isn’t you. I hope it doesn’t come to it, but be prepared to suck it up and move on.

Move on unless you love missionary or charity work…m

This is what happens when normal people get jobs in the bike trade.