Speshpaul….you are right. Must/must not are generally things that you can be prosecuted for, whereas do/do not etc. are advisory. But, these rules can still be used to assess liability.

It’s all very well saying it’s not the law, but if more people followed the highway code there would be less accidents like the OP has had.
Yay, the OP has not broken the law…! Oh, but he’s bruised, has scratched up a car & probably damaged his bike too. What a result…

if your question about passing another car at a junction was aimed at me, then I can’t recall ever overtaking a line of cars at a junction, whether in my car or on my bike. EDIT – I would do this on the approach to a t-junction or a set of traffic lights in my bike, as any manoeuvre would only occur at the lights or junction itself. Again, if in doubt I would cease the manoeuvre. I would also stick to a low speed, to have more chance of stopping should something I had not foreseen occur.
I have undertaken cars in this situation, but generally they will have slowed significantly on the approach (whether indicating or not), hence I would have also slowed to a more appropriate passing speed. If in any doubt I would wait.
Cars turning left, again I would assess their intentions based on indicators, road position, decelerating, looking in mirror etc. If I was happy they were indeed turning left I would overtake, but give them a wide berth in case they decide to carry straight on. I would also not overtake until they had slowed significantly and I would be in a gear that would enable me to pass them as quickly as possible.

I’d say his fault, you crossed the (presumably dashed) lines and were in the other lane, he then pulled accross that lane without giving way.

Agree with others though, no point being right and dead. I’d not have overtaken there.

*which is what a dashed line is telling you to do, a double dashed line is telling you to give way twice e.g. turning right minor to major road, you don’t pull out halfway when it’s clear and block the lane, the double line is telling you to wait untill both lanes are clear. A solid line is obviously stop (or do not cross).

Speshpaul – Member

sbob. still don’t see you backing up you’re white line comments.
But to clarify; arrangance is indicative of a poor attitude towards safe road use, and is incorrect

When trying to be clever, it is normally best not to look stupid. 😆

I’ll ask you again:
Which road marking permits overtaking?

You’ll get there eventually…

I’ve had a few car incidents in my time, 2 my fault, 4 the other guy’s fault.

Your track record doesnt really suggest that you are much good at avoiding situations. Being in the right or it being “the other guy’s fault” does not mean that the accident couldnt have been avoided by you choosing a less risky approach.

Why do you think that insurance premia increase even for those in accidents through no fault of their own?

I’ve had a few car incidents in my time, 2 my fault, 4 the other guy’s fault

That’s in 130,000 miles.
Two my fault: rode into a car stopped at some lights, just didn’t see it. 😳 Smashed his window and broke the spoiler, had to buy him a new one.
Hit a mirror going between two lines of stationary traffic.
The ones which weren’t my fault: going straight on at a roundabout in left lane, car overtakes me on right then turns left accross me.
Van pulled out of cycle lane into my path
Hit by wing mirror of car overtaking me (I was doing 30mph downhill, he must have been doing 70mph, very lucky to get away with that, could have been really nasty!)
Going stright on at cross roads car from directly accross turns right into the side of me.
.
Fortunately only minor injuries, a few stiches and some bruises in total.
Regardless of fault it’s usually the biker who gets hurt so always pays to expect the unexpected, just kicking myself for todays.

Being in the right or it being “the other guy’s fault” does not mean that the accident couldnt have been avoided by you choosing a less risky approach.

True. As someone said above, no point being right and dead.

sbob yes you are right, best not to make yourself look stupid, but i’m affraid you’ve done the damage already.

if you read the post you’ll see…. oh well.

white lines – overtaking, solid don’t, broken do.
the pics show a broke line so they don’t preclude overtaking.

still can’t beat MSM thou. that is the most basic of all.

That’s in 130,000 miles.

Ive been driving for over 20 years, probably about 250,000+ miles, cycled in London every week for the last 15 years and had…..0 incidents, 0 points.
But then Im super. 😀

*frantically touches wood now*

My inner raging biker would have wanted to storm down the outside of the line of traffic as you did… sooo satisfying.

But experience (sounds like you have had more experience than me) should have made you take the reasonable course of losing 30 seconds off your journey time and not falling victim to the ‘expected’ side swipe.

Whilst out on a bike I try to think like a lazy, fat, distracted, agressive motorist whenever I can. Also sometimes ‘would I do this in a car or on a a motorbike?’ helps too…

Sorry if it doesn’t sound very sympathetic, glad you’re not badly hurt.

#couldbedead

*frantically touches wood now*

You’re taking the self-congratulation a tad too far with that.

Speshpaul – Member

sbob yes you are right, best not to make yourself look stupid, but i’m affraid you’ve done the damage already.

if you read the post you’ll see…. oh well.

white lines – overtaking, solid don’t, broken do.
the pics show a broke line so they don’t preclude overtaking.

still can’t beat MSM thou. that is the most basic of all.

You are spectacularly missing the point.
The problem highlighted was one of attitude, which you exhibit again, in the above quote.
I’ll have another go at explaining it:
What does a 30 sign mean?

Upshot seems to be that the OP was in the wrong.

http://www.access-legal.co.uk/legal-news/accidents-involving-filtering-what-the-law-says-lu-2811.htm

When the most recent case quoted is the well know A40 u-turn one in which the motorist was found to be completely to blame, how do you work that one out? Whilst that article mentions a variety of cases, I’d suggest the conclusions are wrong – those cases where the filtering rider was held largely to blame were a long time ago, since when the law has moved on to considering motorists emerging from junctions to be at fault if they hit a filtering bike even if they are flashed out by another driver. If we’re arguing legal liability the A40 case is extremely relevant – that laid the blame totally on the motorist (though this case is slightly different, so the same conclusion might not be reached) http://www.claimssolicitoruk.co.uk/injury-claim-success-stories/motorcycle-filtering-legitimised.php

I still lay some of the blame on the OP, however that does not absolve the driver from being mostly responsible.

Reverse this accident, you’re at the front of the queue on your bike and have indicated as you slow down. Drivers behind you have seen this and stopped so you’ve returned your hands to the handlebars to move off. Car a few behind doesn’t see you indicate and overtakes. Wipes you out as you turn right. Would you blame yourself for not checking in this situation or the driver for overtaking? The one overtaking every time.

When turning right the indicator should be on, but it could just have packed in, it could have just self cancelled, it could have been smashed by the last cyclist who hit him. The driver should have looked behind, but whether on a car or bike when turning across oncoming traffic your attention is going to mostly be forward.

I strongly suspect if this had been much less fortunate and the police did get involved and appoint blame the driver would have got a very small part of it.

Stay safe and hope you have a less incident packed trip tomorrow 🙂

OP utterly nuts IMO. Unfortunately, I have done same myself…human nature, innit.

Regardless of the legalities, my logic. has always been to never overtake, undertake or squeeze through slow moving/stationary traffic. The law and my legal rights are completely irrelevant to me if I end up dead, brain damaged or crippled.

Wait 2 minutes in the queue. Ride as if you are driving, I.e. think of car size gaps. If you wouldn’t do a manouvre in a 1 ton safety cage, then definitely don’t do it on a bike…….

OP is clearly at fault. If you are overtaking you are taking responsibility for the consequences.

So I am with PetePoddy on this.

Glad to know you are ok, I don’t understand why it is considered par for the course
1) to overtake in a junction
2) or change lanes in a junction

(I moved here from North America and it is a big NO-NO….)

However as someone said car drivers don’t tend to look in their mirrors at such places( I often am guilty of the same when I am suddenly startled by a motorbike that comes hurtling down the side in standstillor crawling traffic.

Still glad to know it ended amicably… hope your shoulder heals fast

Driver should have been indicating but you’ve got to be mental/have a deathwish to filter on the outside approaching a junction with a right-hand turn.